Those moves come out because there is Negative Edge. I don’t know how while you yourself also accept that and then say it’s not the real cause.
NE is the real and only cause why those moves come out.
If we are talking about inputs, look at it this way:
The input for mp.SHC is charge down-up+mp. Not charge down+press mp+ up+ and release mp.
OR
The input for Hadoken is d-f+p but it comes out when you do p+d-f+ release p.
The second one is not the input for the move, you again do the input wrongly but get the move anyway because of NE. Releasing the button is not an input, “inputting” the input is an input.
As you can see here, Xian does the motion, as you nicely put it, “wrong” but thanks to it, he has a set up. The input for red fireball is not press hp+halfcircle+release hp, it is halfcircle+PRESS hp. He is making an input mistake but NE rewards him.
Negative edge allows for things like frame perfect reversals and shit. It also allows you to do hitconfirms you normally couldn’t, by increasing the amount of inputs you output.
It has a plethora of other uses as well.
It’s been in every good streetfighter game, I don’t see why that would change.
At this point in the lifecycle of streetfighter it’s as basic of a mechanic as fucking jump.
Don’t have issues with it. It’s very useful in many situations, even for charge characters, Vega in particular you can cr.MK xx ST on -edge. LP xx RCF punish is easier to do with -edge as well.
@Gross_Indecency out of curiosity have you played any games without negative edge? You’re noticing all the drawbacks to it, but when it works as intended, which is most of the time, it’s highly beneficial. It comes from games having a much tighter execution windows. Negative edging is probably helping you hit those 1 frame jab links in the first place. Edit: Moonchilde corrected me below.
Also are you playing pad or a stick?
You’re right that negative is enabling this to happen, but I’m not sure if you realize that what you’re asking for may be throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Another thing -edge work is good for is standing attacks from down to up charge. For @Gross_Indecency a way to utilize it is jump in HP, st.MK xx mST. For a character like Bison, it’s useful to cancel close st.LK to Head Stomp. Without -edge these would be a little more of a hassle to pull of, with -edge you only need press the button once and with good timing you can get it down easy.
IMO, -edge cr.MP xx SHC can be corrected with execution and not having to do a drastic overhaul to SF style gameplay that’s been standard for 3 decades.
Just seems like one more thing to convolute the button select and for people to make excuses for why they lost. I’d wager that most people asking for it would put it back on after realizing how much they actually depend on it and how 99.5 percent of the time it works in their favor.
I’d be more inclined to believe that people want a substitute like button hold from KOFXIII, which still probably wouldn’t fix OP’s issue.
The problem would be whether or not it could be turned off for individual players. If not, then it would become an issue when a player bitches about losing a tournament because he/she doesn’t play on the tournament standard.
The thing about you SF4 kids is that you play a game that’s so dastardly, terribly coded that you complain about the wrong shit. A good 90% of the option selects in this game have shit to do with negative edging and more to do with the porn star loose input window. Hell, the proximity OS happens because of how SF4 handles state changes apparently.
So before you start asking to remove basic things from a game, how about we don’t start with something which, at its most practical level, you’re gonna use to buffer hadoukens into a crouching forward during footsies.
It helps newer players do moves, helps pro players have more complicated footsies, and makes the reversal window far more bearable without going all the way with the 3 frames + happy go lucky inputs reversals SF4 has. If you really want to remove shit, how about SF5 goes full skullgirls and you can’t tech throws while crouching. That’d be a proper discussion.
I think that would fall under the category of “convoluting the process” for a generally beneficial mechanic. I also played Honda in SFIV and early on people had the same type of troubles with mash mechanic moves like 100 hand slaps (which I would insist are more likely to suffer from accidental negative edge inputs than the OP’s gripes) where people would often get the incorrect version of hands for combos. People figured out that instead of pianoing LP,MP,HP,MP,HP, which would often result in accidental EX, if you input LP,HP,MP,LP,HP to do crouch jab into hands you consistently get HP hands as desired. We’re talking a small window of variance that was cleaned up by marginally better execution. Hence why I asked about Gross_Indecency’s input device and game experience; he could easily resolve his issues by improving execution vs. eliminating or complicating an ESTABLISHED, highly beneficial system mechanic. A lot of people are lamenting the fact that Xrd does not have negative edge.
Seriously, try playing 3s or ST without negative edge. Getting cr. short, short super with Ken would be a ton harder and virtually impossible to confirm in 3s. and Renda cancels in ST
You’re probably not aware of the situations where negative edge helps you. You only notice if something doesn’t work the way you want it to.
While you’re technically not “wrong” about negative edge being at fault for giving you something you didn’t want, I don’t think it’s beneficial to think of if that way. if you get a negative edge special, it’s more useful to think of it as an execution error on your end. negative edge problems can generally be fixed by changing your motions/when you let go of the buttons.
also while theoretically it would be fine to give people a choice on whether they want it, I think it’d be just one more thing that slows down starting a game, especially in tournaments. and you could definitely see it becoming an issue - someone will forget to check it, lose, then complain that negative edge was turned off and they always play with it on.
basically it’s a logistics problem, and one that I don’t think is worth the tradeoff even though it sounds small.
It seems Vega is one of those who gain absolutely nothing from NE. But I can see many people that use other chars love it. So I don’t understand why we shouldn’t have an option to turn it on and off for individuals so that everyone would be happy. Under costume choice on the char select screen “Negative Edge: On/Off”
So because the character you play in sf4, which may not be back in sf5, seems to gain nothing from this, you want capcom to take a feauture of their game and remove whatever potential the characters could have of using it in the new game?
How is this a thead about negative edge and not bitching bout your character?
Back on the lack of response about what game OP has played without negative edge and what input device I’m guessing OP is a SFIV only padrosexual that has no idea what he’s asking for.
I played SFII, SF Zero two, KOF 96-97-98, MK3-4-9. It’s been a very long time since I played the others, so don’t remember if they had NE but I wasn’t bothered if they had. But it also bothered me hugely in MK9. BTW, you are the one that got corected about NE by Moonchilde. It shows you are the one that doesn’t know what he is talking about.
I seriously doubt you read what I write.
I said “put an option to turn it off/on in the char select screen for each player”.
If you confuse “removing” and “having an option to turn it off for a player”, I don’t what to say. I’m saying give everyone an option to turn it off for himself and you are shouting “he wants them to remove it!”
Imagine you and me having a versus: if you want it, on the char select screen, when choosing your costume, choose NE: on, just like how you choose your Ultra in USF4. If I don’t want it, I will turn it off for that gameplay with my char. How is it any concern to you if I turn it off for my gameplay if yours will be on just like you want and we play with each other normally?
