Should SF5 have an option to turn off negative edge?

Street Fighter V
1

MKX did it, I don’t know if any other games did. It has an option to turn negative edge on and off. I, as a Vega player, hate negative edge. A one frame mistimed motion releasing an absurd special is a very frustrating thing for me. I’ve also seen it happen during tournaments at the hands of the best players.

Here world’s best Dan player Ixion explains it.

From Ixion:

"Added option in Button Config-menu; NEGATIVE EDGE: ON/OFF
MOTIVATION: I feel absolutely no need to trigger my specials, supers, or ultras by means of -releasing- the triggering button(s) rather than pressing it/them. Negative edge causes so much more trouble for me than it’s actually helping, and I’m not alone in thinking this.

Sakura got the use of negative edge on her Otoshi Hop removed in an earlier iteration, the reason being players accidentally got that one out instead of Shouken. This makes me furious; like that one move would be the only special that occasionally comes out by accident because of negative edge?

It’s not, there are countless other situations where negative edge messes up intended combos and setups, and therefore I would like to have the option to turn this mechanism OFF. This choice should exist in the same menu as button mapping so it can be turned off in button checks for those who would like to."

Well, the options are clear. Do you thing SF5 should have this option to turn off negative edge?

2

i dont mind negative edge, i even use it for fireballs sometimes. i think negative edge should be either permanently turned on or off so that players in tournaments aren’t arguing about it.

3

does that even happen? I’ve only argued about (against) plinking.

4

It sucks in MKX because the window for inputting anything in that game is HUMONGOUS, that is why it hurts the player more than it helps.
In SFIV i’ve only had it work against me when i used a light attack and even then it is rare. Negative edge does help when implemented correctly.

5

How? Do you think it helps in SF4?

6

Negative Edge could lead to characters obtaining tech that the developers did not intend them to have.

By the way, how did you post those questions at the top and give the ability to vote. Also how did you get the voted answer in the form of a statement with the colored box next to it above someones comment. I’d really appreciate it, thank you.

7

It does help in several ways.
Viper can get a lot of mileage out of it for canceling moves, it’s also does not sound like a button press upon release if you are worried about someone listening to you.
If used correctly it’s a good method for working execution related issues out as well.

8

I guess it REALLY depends on your char being command or char, it seems. For charge characters, negative edge is a nightmare.
For example as Vega, I’m doing jab-jab-jab-cr.mp-ex.fba combo. after three jabs, I miss the link to cr.mp but I have already input the “up-forward” motion for ex.fba. Guess what happens? Normal mp-SHC starts! The worst special in the game.
I want to command my own moves, not the game.

I think if it helps command chars and kills the charge chars’ game, having the option would be great. Why would people be against other people having this option? If you want neg. edge. turn the option on.

9

MK does it because the way that negative edge work on their games is different from how it works on ther games, aka, it is because they know their input buffer is bonkers and fucked up but they keep it because that has been their “gimmick” for so long that the mk fans who usually don’t know better would probably flip it if they removed it.

The “Negative Edge” on MK is simply a symptom of a terrible input buffer.

10

Much of what is actually considered tech is stuff that was beyond developer intent. So much of street fighter’s core mechanics came from things that were not initially intended (combos, cross-ups). Plinking and input leniency are really where you should be worried about because that’s how you get ridiculous option selects.

Also, please don’t go off making a bunch of polls, generally they are frowned upon because they are created in violation of the forum rules.

Most of what you’re talking about there relates to input buffers, execution errors and lack of hit confirming that are not the fault of negative edge.

I play predominantly charge characters in most games and negative edge is rarely if ever a problem. The problems are more due to input leniency, which makes negative edge less necessary.

11

I would love the option to turn it off yes.

12

But then you wouldn’t be able to play Juri…

13

I rarely use NE with Juri. It’s not in my best interest to have it as a core part of my gameplan.

14

I can’t believe that… You get free pressure from it on block.

15

? What you mean holding fireballs? That’s not NE…That’s just…holding a button with no motions.

16

Negative edge and release off hold aren’t quite the same thing. One is a system mechanic and the other is a character specific coded mechanic. Otherwise Ryu would be able to store his fireballs too.

17

Bingo.

18

You can’t say “most” when there are two things. I’ve put two examples. One of them is about input leniency which I think has something to do with NE. But if it’s not, ok. It’s not the bigger problem. But the first one with the jabs is about NE and that’s the real problem.

Negative edge is when the special comes out when you release the button after doing the motion. Like in my jab-jab-jab-cr.mp-ex.fba example, when I’m pressing the cr.mp in that combo and then make the motion “up-forward” and then to do ex.fb, let go of the mp button, if i delayed the release of the cr.mp button, instead of ex.fba, mp-SHC will come out. That is negative edge. You do the motion and release the p/k button.

More examples:

In the same way: When you want to do hp-lk.SK with Bison, because of negative edge, if you do the motion before releasing the HP, and then release HP to press lk, instead of lk.SK, hp.PC will come out.

In the same way: With Vega, the opponent is in the corner. I did cr.mk and he blocked. I’m in + frames. I will put pressure and will do st.lk. But when I input the forward motion after holding down-back with.crmk and if I release mk button even one frame later than when I input the forward motion, mk.ST will come out and I will eat a combo.
Etc.,etc.

And this is silly. In the first scenario, if negative edge didn’t exist, instead of mp.SHC coming out, my mistimed cr.mp would come out and then ex.fba.
In the second one, lk.SK would come out.
In the third one, st.lk would come out.

The game thinks it is helping me, but its not. And I’ve seen these things happen to Zeus, Dogura, Hiro, etc. If your execution is better than them, bravo.

If there was a Ryu special that was done by down-forward-mk, I guess many Ryus would also do that special while trying to do cr.mk-hadoken, just because they did release mk a little late. I’m sure many Sagats also see TS come out instead of TK after a crouching punch normal in the same way.

19

For me NE hurts more then it helps. An option never hurts. It’s like not having an option to turn off aim assist in an FPS. I hate aim assist screws me up too much to be helpful. I do much better without it. and thankfully the option is there (not for all FPS’ though sadly.)

20

Sorry, not most, all then. I understand how negative edge works, but these are more execution errors on your part. You are holding down buttons that you should be tapping. If you’re getting sky high claw that means you’re holding the button too long and going to up forward too early. You should already have let go of MP before you go to up/forward.

Same with st. HP>LK scissors, you should not be at forward before releasing HP.

These are related to negative edge and input leniency, but the real cause is you inputting things incorrectly. The game is operating exactly as it intends to, which is with negative edge, but you are making incorrect inputs.

The correct input for cr. MP>EX FBA is hold downback for charge, cr. MP (release), up forward KK.

Not hold downback for charge, cr. MP (hold), up forward, (release MP) KK.

You are putting in the command for MP Sky high claw. Don’t blame this on the mechanic when you are doing the inputs incorrectly. My execution is not better that theirs, but they will make mistakes from time to time. Don’t blame the game for doing a Psycho crusher when you put in the command for psycho crusher.

If you turned off negative edge with the inputs you’re doing, you’d most likely jump/walk forward.

Brings to mind a programmers saying about when code compiles with an unexpected result:
“Stupid machine, it did exactly what I told it to.”