You need to come back to PSN! You know that’s where you call home. :wgrin:
I just didn’t see it as a rollback in that video. I see alot of rollbacks and generally IF IT WAS A ROLLBACK, then boxer would have got hit by the srk, and then it would have REWINDED to ken getting thrown. I never saw the boxer get hit by the srk which implies it wasn’t a rollback at all. I’ve had my srks hit someone rollback and i’m getting thrown. What occurred in that video did not look like a rollback.
That is…like…the best idea EVER!!! 
When I’m able to get on a computer more, I just may change my avatar! 
Somebody rep that Shari guy up please.
To add some clarity to the whole “Shoryuken getting thrown” thing…
Ryu and Ken’s Shoryukens have a blue hitbox on them 2 frames before it leaves the ground. That means that they can be thrown by whatever throw if you can get around the Shoryuken’s red hitbox. (The only property a special throw has that makes it easier for this to happen is…more range.)
So, yes, blitzfu was correct. VFF…just gotta say it…you really shouldn’t jump on people like you do. Granted, you do know some things, but it makes you look like you’re on here just to one-up people…and it looks especially bad when you’re wrong, as you are in this case. Give people the benefit of the doubt and you may find yourself wiser for it. Peace out.
What the fuck are you talking about? SRK’s have blue hitboxes before they leave the ground? That doesn’t mean anything in this argument. If SRK’s could be thrown in startup by Boxer’s normal hold then how come SRKs beat tick throw attempts every single time?
And according to T.Akiba’s frame data SRKs have 8 frames at the beginning where they are off the ground and unthrowable. So where you are getting the two throwable startup frames on SRKs escapes me.
You need more schooling as well. The reason T.Hawk’s SUPER throw grabs them is because he delays the throw by eight frames by ducking under it with a crouching forward. Then after the 8 unthrowable frames have transpired, they are followed by two throwable frames where Ryu is in the air, those are the frames where T.Hawk and Claw grab Ryu during NKI’s EVO2K7 combo video.
VFF, did you actually look at that link? Once again, because you seem to not have noticed:
http://nki.combovideos.com/flame.html
These two throwable frames are grounded, not airborne. They exist before Ryu or Ken leave the ground, not after.
Sorry, I mean ‘leave the ground’ as in the animation, meaning you see them leap into the air as part of their SRK animation. I didn’t mean off the ground as in the system recognizing their state of being ‘on’ or ‘off’ the ground dictating if they can be thrown. So yes I should have been more specific.
It still doesn’t change the fact that Boxer in that earlier video merely got a throw because of a rollback and not because he grabbed Ken out of an SRK with a normal throw. Why people are so afraid to call Blitzfu out on this is laughable at this point. Rollback…that’s all it was.
So you think that Hawk can throw Ken’s Shoryuken with a wakeup reversal Super throw, but that Boxer cannot do the same with a wakeup normal reversal throw? That’s untrue. I believe that every character can do a wakeup reversal throw on the Shoryuken, if they timed it when the Shoryuken was grounded and vulnerable. This kind of timing is extremely difficult because it relies on the Ken player making a mistake. The Ken player can always avoid this by doing the meaty Jab Shoryuken very early so that it’s still in its invincible, hitting frames or very late so that it’s airborne (my preference so that my opponent is in blockstun long enough for Ken to recover). Either way, it will be unthrowable.
Ken’s Jab Shoryuken (data from NKI’s site):
2 invincible, non-hitting and grounded frames (this is the invincible startup)
4 invincible, hitting and grounded frames (this is how Ken beats tick throws as he’s unthrowable and hitting)
2 vulnerable, hitting and grounded frames (this is the vulnerable part where Ken was thrown by Boxer and Ryu was thrown by Hawk and Claw, they wouldn’t have been able to throw the Shoryuken in the previous 4 frames as those frame are completely invincible)
12 vulnerable, hitting and airborne frames
16 vulnerable, non-hitting and airborne frames
3 vulnerable, non-hitting and grounded frames
Virtua Fighter - you REALLY need to relax. You’re spazzing like you’ve been holding in diahrea for 6 weeks. Whether right or wrong just be cool about it.
as far as the theory fighter going on, i’ll stay neutral. what happened in that particular match looks like lag/ rollback/ random netcode bullshit to me, though.
ps i’m pretty sure hawk’s super grabs whatever the fuck is in front of him, reguardless of what’s going on. using that as the basis for the argument that rog’s normal throw behaves the same is pretty shakey, imo.
Even if Blitzfu is wrong, Im pretty certain more people here have respect for the guy since he doesn’t jump on everyone he believes is wrong.
On that note, get over to XBL so I can jump you Blitz.
I don’t think it was a rollback. Boxer never got hit by the srk, which almost always happens with rollbacks. You would have seen the srk hit boxer, then a rewind to ken getting thrown.
Regardless, the frame data supports that it is possible.
Kind of like what happens in [media=youtube]-Afub_f_xjY&feature=related#"[/media] video (at the 6:33 mark)?
Yes, that’s a rollback!
LOL If and when I do finally get on XBL, you’ll prolly demolish me and be like “He ain’t shit”. 
Looking forward to the ggs tho. :tup:
Do you think that Hawk’s Super can throw airborne and invincible opponents? Just a question.
Hawk can’t grab airborne or invincible opponents any more than other throws can. This discussion shouldn’t have devolved into Theory Fighter at all because it’s a testable situation.
Whether or not rollbacks are involved (which is highly unlikely), blitzfu is right on the money in his understanding of mechanics here. In fact, I think he’s just repeating something I mentioned in an earlier ST topic: http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=203060. Everyone can see from T.Akiba’s data that shoto DPs have an “eye” in the middle of the dp where they’re out but still considered on the ground and thus vulnerable .
Why don’t players try to punish it? Well, that’s awfully difficult to time and position with no tricks (negative edge, option selecting, etc.) available for either. Airthrowing a dp is pure reflexes and inflicts excellent damage. Throwing a dp out of its “eye” requires being in the exact spot (or predicting a dp) and then going out to throw at the exact moment with really no leniency at 2 frames. I’m not even sure anyone can respond that fast in normal situations. Plus, why bother? If you’re already out of range and the dp whiffs, in most cases, why not just wait for it to finish and then punish for free?
VF4: I think the aspect you’re forgetting in this situation is that boxer’s blocking animation moves his vulnerable hitbox far back. If you watch the video, you can see the boxer leaning back as the dp is starting up. That makes the dp whiff. And straight from that blocking animation, boxer is still able to reach forward enough to grab Ken during the vulnerable 2-frame grounded period. Many characters likely can’t recoil that far back to avoid the dp’s large initial hitbox and still be close enough to throw so boxer may be an exception in that regard.
I just tested this situation using frame-by-frame on Kawaks (HSF2 T0 to get an accurate frame count) and had no problem throwing Ken out of his dp. You must be close but not close enough for the dp to hit boxer in blocking animation. Simply aim for boxer’s grab to hit in the 2-frame eye and as long as Ken’s dp is close enough (if you position the characters right, the dp will be close enough), boxer can throw Ken out of the dp just as expected. Feel free to try it for yourself. I think it’s great you’ve been providing folks with a wealth of knowledge and empathize that it’s annoying when folks mention BS mechanics but there’s always more to learn about the game. May as well relax and enjoy the ride. 
i always thought as long as they’re grounded, he’ll grab it, which would include a shoryu on startup during invincible frames or not. obviously not if they’re airborne.
Well, now you know better. And knowing is half the battle.
go joe!
Picking up Ken in HDR here and had a question.
Is Ken’s j.p xx hurricane completely safe if used on someone properly on wakeup? Or are there exceptions?
You can always be AA’ed on wakeup, other than that its safe. Actually, question about that same move:
I noticed when I perform it my opponent doesn’t get stuck in a block string and always has time to react. What am I doing wrong?
Also:
cross j.mk > cr. fierce > fierce SRK = game over