Hit Confirmable crouching short x2, kara cancel into super
[media=youtube]aRrSWLz9OrU&#t=2m8s"[/media]
Ready to eat your words yet?
There’s really no point in arguing this anymore. We’ve wasted a page trying to convince Jamie that Ken’s super is at least average. He is either trolling or currently lacks an understanding of the advantages of Ken’s super.
Its both 
Has anyone tried hit confirming hk tatsu of two cr.shorts? I’ve tried linking, but it was inconsistent, the renda cancel might prove different.
I’d type something here, but I’d pretty much be saying what everyone else has been saying. Ken’s Shoryureppa is not a horrible super. It’s as effective at catching the moves a Jab Shoryuken would catch, yet hits on the first frame like a Fierce Shoryuken, does 50% damage, is hit-confirmable, is completely invincible while its hitting frames are up, and can be juggled afterward if used as anti-air.
Bottom line…it has its uses. I actually think that the Shoryureppa is on par with Guile’s Flash Kick SC. Actually…it’s better than that because Guile can’t follow his up.
But yeah…this is the first time I’ve heard anyone actually complain about Ken’s Shoryureppa…and I’ve been around some good players. Sure, you can’t so something crazy like start a Level 3 Shoryureppa right when Charlie starts his Sonic Break and hit him with the last uppercut from half a screen away (yes…I won a game like that in Alpha 1…utter craziness), but if I can use his Shinryuken to catch limbs in Alpha 1, then why can’t I use a move that has more range to do the same thing?
Anywho…that move isn’t going to be changed…and there are worse supers out there.
hint hint, shrug shrug :wgrin:
Theoretically speaking, I think renda cancelling would get you more consistent results. However, I’d also try using cr.:mp:, cr.:lk: XX :hk: Tatsu and see what happens. (We are talking about from point-blank range or after a cross-up, right?)
Ken’s SUPER is also better than Guile’s when you factor in the required inputs as well. Ken’s SUPER is QCFx2, whereas Guile’s is a charge SUPER, meaning once Guile stands up he cannot use it. And in order to charge Guile’s SUPER you lose all mobility which limits is usage heavily.
With Ken you can threaten a walk up to low shorts, and hit-confirm the SUPER, because of the motion. The second that you see Guile leave defensive crouch you know that he cannot threaten the SUPER.
This is another area where you see how inputs dramatically affect balance. From ST to SFIII they changed SUPERS (well Super Arts in SFIII) to mostly QCFx2 commands (with the exception of throw Super Arts). So characters who mostly have charge specials in 3S (like Urien or Q) have Super Arts that activate with a QCF motion.
Now go to SFIV, where Capcom reverted back to charge SUPERS and ULTRAS, and look at Guile and Ken in that game. Ken, Ryu, Sagat, have ULTRA attacks that are highly useful. Guile? I believe, very much to do with the motion for the command, that his ULTRA is considered one of the worst in the game.
Thanks for the assist, VFF. Very good points.
Wouldn’t cr.mp have to much pushback? Yes I’m talking point blank walkup, crossup, post kneebash situations.
Ohh good one video in 50 where Anikien has actually done it, so that proves that it’s a valid move… great! I stand corrected, point proven and its amazing!! So thats Gief, Hawk, Blanka, GUILE (even thought I disagree) and then Ken. I was just last night watching Muteki do crossover, into c. forward into super. Same theory as Ken’s hit confirmable crossover set ups besides walkin up into short short, which Guile can’t really do. I think I see Guile use super in match videos more than Ken. Catching someone in the air with Guile’s super does more damage than Ken’s (I think)).
Does it have its uses, SURE DUH, but are those opportunities that arise that often in consistent high level game play… NO! That is my real arguement, but skip over this again and keep saying how “you gotta know how to use it dude”. Dude, it’s uses are still limited in the grand scheme of things.
Ill keep my reservations about this topic to myself from hence forth lol.
Some ken’s just choose not to do it, but those that do it consistently would tell you its great.
Damdai has said you will see ken land his super more than ryu, not because ryu’s super sucks but because its more of a mindgame whereas ken’s hit confirmable super makes it useful in combos.
The super combo IIRC that DGV, and even daigo was using I believe randomly misses sometimes and allows the opponent to block the super. That doesn’t happen with ken, unless you are using it on a small hitbox like claw,chun, or cammy, in which case the combo with ryu’s super will also be blocked.
Just stop it, as I’ve said before to someone else, if this many people disagree with you, and you aren’t up there taking top 8 or 3 at tournies(this still wouldn’t automatically make you right, just give you more credibility), then you are probably wrong.
Also, outside of AA and jump in combos you won’t see guile combo super. Ken can kneebash > mixup with a billion possible things including walk unders/walk unders then walk back under, and safe jump and always has the option of doing cr.lk cr.lk xx super. Guile doesn’t have that.
Those taking top 8 are not pulling this off in tournaments even 1 out of 20 games. Ryu’s super’s point more often than not it to do chip damage. 1-2 of Ryu’s supers a possible round on chip damage is awesome vs Ken’s once in a while short/short super combo. I’m sure Damdai knows this and hopefully you do to.
Can I have the last word?? Pretty please… ;-p
Yes we will let you be stupid and ignorant, its high risk, high reward. It may not be done in tournaments alone because of that, but it is worth that risk. Furthermore, so much can be done of cr.short that sometimes the super is overkill, but please don’t say that a hit confirmable super that hits on the first frame and is completely invincible from an AA POV is one of the worst supers in the game.
Worst only relative to the overall cast. Yeah it’s better by a good bit over Hawk/Gief and even Blanka… maybe a tad bit better than Guile, but it is outclassed by a good margin by the supers from chars that are above his.
Ken FTW!
Any character with a reversal can just reverse after blocking the first hit of hondas
Sagat’s is great for AA, but like alot of supers leaves him wide open on block
cammy’s is punishable by anyone that can already punish her thrust kicks
fei has to hit them on the ground since his head becomes vulnerable on the 3rd or 4th hit(although his is definitely good)
dj has to be fairly close or the third hit will whiff leaving him open to a reversal
chuns does shitty damage now, although still storable
sim can reverse with his now, its not bad
dictator’s is pretty good
claw’s is good, he just has to land it
boxer’s is good it just has that glitch
gief/hawks are good, but they have to get close to use it(makes you wonder if their supers should have been greenhand/dive supers?)
ryu’s is only good because its a projectile super
guiles is just a double flashkick (comes with the same pros and cons except more invincibility)
i admit blanka’s is bad, except for its AA abilities, but how often is it used in that way?
Thing is, next to all of those, ken’s isn’t really worse. It may not be better, but its no where near as bad you make it sound.
There are 3 kinds of supers, good ones like ryus/boxers/dictator middle ones like everyone and meh ones like gief/hawk/blanka that have it just to have it.
coth… just don’t. it’s not worth it.
on a different note, has this [media=youtube]jUpyNUaFRKI"[/media] been discussed? at 52 seconds he does short funky kick crossup that kept ryu facing the opposite direction, then reappeared back to his original side. unlike roundhouse which crosses over indefinitely. i haven’t been able to replicate it, but it seems like it’d be fun to explore its uses.
How often do you see cammy land her super on match videos not off a combo? fei? dj? I mean there are like 4 supers that are consistently landed in match videos that you will see on youtube, boxer, ryu, chun, and dictator. Pretty much the rest of the cast needs to combo, ainti air, or reversal to get theirs to land
When i was really really scrubby (not saying i’m any good now) i played damdai on 2df for like 35-40 matches, and he was ending 80-90% of rounds by landing short-short super on me after some knee bash mixup, a crossup, or a jump in/walk in. Mostly i could tell he was just practicing (since he was missing it sometimes) but it still showed me how effective it can be as a mixup tool.
But but but, it sucks! Thanks dude! :lol:
I used to land Cammy’s super off of hesitating from a Cannon Drill. Or I’d predict a fireball and hit it, otherwise I never combo’ed into it. Even if it could be combo’ed into I was never good enough to do it.
The thing about cammy, fei deejay and, blah blah blah are those are used to go through projectiles. Why am I explaing the obvious things. Ken doesnt need a super to do that because he can throw fireballs. Deejay got lucky and got one that does evade the ole fireball war. Cammy and Fei’s super are def better for them then Ken’s is for himself if ONLY because proper use of them get them around said projectiles. I’ve seen Cammy and Fei combo off their supers just as much as Ken from video’s.
“No, No, NO Ken’s fireball can be linked and it hits on the first frame!!!.. !”
We can go on and on and on here…