Shoryuken

[Vulpes]

please stop comparing this game with your anime fighters

Since you went there: I’m sure you can give me a clear definition of what an “anime fighter” is, right?

[SpaceOutNightmare]

I miss Super Turbo.

Especially Ken’s super into light SRK.

[Emanuelb]

At least address what I said instead of being a dumbass. If you don’t have a good reason to why Ken’s DP needs to have only 9 frames of recovery instead of at least 18 like Akuma’s, don’t say anything.

Look who’s misleading now… How about you tell EVERYTHING that he needs to know?
Some reversals are actually SAFE ON BLOCK in ST if done at the right range. But guess what, dragon punches don’t live in a vacuum, and are affected by other rules of the game. So the DPs in ST, while being “better” in theory, are actually not as annoying when you sit down and play the game! That’s because their motion can’t be mashed, the hit and block stun are much longer, the game isn’t as reliant on links, the walking is faster the throws are better and the pushblock is bigger, so most of the fighting ends up taking place at the range where reversals WHIFF, unlike SF4 which takes place at crouching jab range.
So if you want to hit an opponent with a shoryuken in ST, it usually means catching a limb, which is hard. In SF4 you’ll get your easy chance to do it at zero range, and it forces the opponent to stop attack completely to wait for it.

• I’m a little confused here. LP srk for Ken has 18+8 recovery frames, not 9. Or you are counting only the landing recovery ?

• I never said DPs are better in SF2. I just adressed the specific issue that srk are way harder to punnish in ST (which is true), so if you find it difficult to punnish them in sf4, the comparisson with st is not a good one. And yes, there’s no input leniency in ST.
  Also, I agree that online kens are the most annoying - even more annoying then blankas (at least for me).

Since you went there: I’m sure you can give me a clear definition of what an “anime fighter” is, right?

“anime fighter” is a generic term, so there isn’t a clear definition. But if you insist: it reffers to fgs that draw their inspirations from anime/manga, have a unique design (girls are very cute - and the whole kawaii style, boys usually have an efeminate look (bishounen), etc), and usually are acompanied by an esoteric/weird story. Melty Blood is a prime example - it was made after a doujin manga - Tsukihime, that spanned a visual novel (or it was the visual novel first ?) and an anime - Shingetsutan Tsukihime - which, btw, is awesome, one of my all time fav.

For the record, I didn’t use the term “anime fighters” in a derogatory sense. I’m an anime fan and I really enjoy Blazblue.
Also, if you want to know if I include here skull girls - I’m not sure, it’s western, but it’s weird design might make you put it in this category.

Btw - We are almost finnished with the tier list, and you still didn’t gave us your thoughts on Juri match ups. She was left in the dark :(.

[SpaceOutNightmare]

Considering everyone does and takes WAY more damage in ST, one whiffed SRK costs you the round, unlike SF4.

[Emanuelb]

Not really. Punnishing wiffed srk in ST is quite difficult, actually I think all specials are harder to punnish. So, even at high level play you can see whiffed srks that go unpunnished - or at best the punnish is small. unlike sf4, where you have time to think at your best combo, in ST you can’t do that - just see ToL, or how many times J. Wong whiffed dps with Sagat in 25th ann. tournaments - not much of a punnish, unlike in sf4 where you might lose a round for that.

[SpaceOutNightmare]

Not really. Punnishing wiffed srk in ST is quite difficult, actually I think all specials are harder to punnish. So, even at high level play you can see whiffed srks that go unpunnished - or at best the punnish is small. unlike sf4, where you have time to think at your best combo, in ST you can’t do that - just see ToL, or how many times J. Wong whiffed dps with Sagat in 25th ann. tournaments - not much of a punnish, unlike in sf4 where you might lose a round for that.

Just because a whiffed SRK in high level play doesn’t mean whiffed SRKs=/=death.

TOD combos, stun combos, and all around random damage on alot of shit means that someone baiting a srk is spelling death for you.

Also, I’ve seen someone whiff an srk, someone punish him with a half life throw, then cross him up into a stun.

[Emanuelb]

usually TOD combos are started from a jump in/cross up and they are very difficult to perform - I’ve yet to see a whiffed srk punnished by a TOD combo.

[IglooBob]

• what everybody said: this move also have a TON of recovery - it’s one of the most punnishable move in the entire game, and if you can’t punnish it, then maybe you should go more often into training room. Or play other games.
• about ST: what Tataki and Igloboob “forgot” to tell you is that in ST srk has way less recovery frames = way harder to punnish.

Anyway, I think this thread should be closed, or at least moved to Sakiyo Dojo.

my point is related to startup and not recovery. no other game in the series has DPs blow up offense as easily as 4 does. that’s not criticism of 4 (I’m sure it sounds like it is) but it does change how the game is played. saying “it’s always been like this, get good” like everyone has done is pretty misleading because it hasn’t always been like this. in ST DPs (especially on wakeup) are just not as big a problem. in 3s LOL DPs, if you’re not stuffing them outright, you’re option select parrying them as you walk forward for throw or whatever you were gonna do. and because walkspeed is so good in both games you don’t have to give up the best wakeup pressure just to bait out a DP.

I agree that you either gotta learn to bait and punish or play a different game. but we can at least acknowledge that because of a variety of factors (reversal window and walk speed being two of the biggest) SF4 DPs are the best DPs in the series.

[ilitirit]

DPs are like the least of your worries in SFIV.

[chubbyfingerz]

OP has many valid points.

[Nemesys_Syndrome]

Whiffed srk can be potentially punished by Guile with a minimum of 300 dmg up to 715dmg.

The point is, set up a punish combo that you can do without thinking too much into the punish itself. Know what you have stocked, keep your eyes out for certain possibilities and have said combo/punisher readily available to pull out at a whim’s notice.

Planning ahead pwns all.

[Vulpes]

“anime fighter” is a generic term, so there isn’t a clear definition. But if you insist: it reffers to fgs that draw their inspirations from anime/manga, have a unique design (girls are very cute - and the whole kawaii style, boys usually have an efeminate look (bishounen), etc), and usually are acompanied by an esoteric/weird story. Melty Blood is a prime example - it was made after a doujin manga - Tsukihime, that spanned a visual novel (or it was the visual novel first ?) and an anime - Shingetsutan Tsukihime - which, btw, is awesome, one of my all time fav.

For the record, I didn’t use the term “anime fighters” in a derogatory sense. I’m an anime fan and I really enjoy Blazblue.
Also, if you want to know if I include here skull girls - I’m not sure, it’s western, but it’s weird design might make you put it in this category.

I’m asking because people can’t even get down to whether it’s a playstyle thing (airdashes, airblocking, long combos - which would make MvC the “anime fighter”), a visual thing (big eyes like in a manga, which pretty much reduces it to Melty Blood, AH and nothing else), a personality thing (as in characters present, which would add eg SF4 to the list with stereotypes like Sakura), … etc etc etc.
No idea why you would rate this as “anime fighter”, while this quite apparently isn’t one - that really can only have gameplay reasons?! Which again doesn’t make sense…
Btw “weird story”, really? Have you looked at any story of any fighter ever lol. Is SFxT an anime fighter now?

I “insisted” because the term is extreme bullshit and generally doesn’t mean anything other than “games I don’t like”.

Btw - We are almost finnished with the tier list, and you still didn’t gave us your thoughts on Juri match ups. She was left in the dark :(.

Oh yeah I had a load of stuff to do and kinda quit SF4 midway through so I neither felt like doing it at all nor like I was actually entitled to do so. If you want me to do it anyways I can write some things down but I can’t guarantee on any quality as I’m not deep in the stuff no more\

[TheBigDaddyC-Master]

I guess they define “anime fighter” as a combination of those characteristics. Crazy combos, “anime” look, etc. If it has one of those characterstics or a mild amount of them, I guess they don’t see it that way.

shrugs

[Emanuelb]

http://www.customity.com/content/wallpaper/guilty-gear-ky-kiske-and-sol-badguy-wallpaper

Anyone who is into anime will recognize this style - it’s anime - see the spiky hair ? that’s a trademark.
And sfxt has a story ? By weird I don’t mean non existent or forced. Guilty Gear - for ex. is very weird - a strange combination.
Guilty Gear, Blazblue, Persona4, Melty Blood, all of them could qualify as anime fighters.
Also, I’m sorry to hear that about sf4.

[Sosage]

This thread has a lot of explaining to do for itself. One of those things, however, is not explaining what “Anime fighter” means. I’d just drop it, myself. It’s getting ridiculous in an already eye roll inducing thread.

[Monster637]

You do sound scrubby, but dp fadc is actually really annoying and something to get pissed off about, especially when dp fadc ultra does like 500 damage

thats more of the FADC that was put in the game not the dp itself

[eltrouble]

We’re going back to the anime fighter discussion? I already solved that one. If your fighting game looks like it could easily be a hentai with the introduction of text bubbles and boobs, then it’s an anime fighter. /discussion.

[petran79]

screw Shoryuken.

Double Chou Upper all the way

[HNIC_Mike]

has my browser been transported back to 2009?