Yup, and it seems pple manage to win by chip dmg actually. I should learn to do that.
You can’t crouch and mash on throw tech. You have to stand up for that. If you’re standing, you get hit with a low.
Who said anything about mash? I’m talking tech on prediction and reaction.
All characters should have an overhead, at least with this system. Rose and Cammy both need it.
What rose really needs is for soul throw to act as a true anti-air. Nothing should be able to stuff it with proper distance. Increased active frames for her reflects. Increased range FA. And her ultra to be comboable(outside of FA), with reduced damage of course.
The other guy shouldn’t be able to react to a throw attempt, unless it’s some kind of super obvious setup. If they’re predicting the throw, that’s when you do the hit portion of the hit/throw mixup, which Rose’s good frames on slide and cr.MP, airborne property of close MK as well as her good throw range make possible.
And yeah, she’s decent at doing safe chip damage. Cammy, not so much. Several characters don’t have overheads, and some overheads aren’t even important to the characters that do have them. Ryu without forward strong would be…pretty much just as good as Ryu with that move.
He has so many tools and options that he doesn’t really need it. It explains why he’s closer to the top of most tier lists than the bottom.
- What can they really take away from Rose though? Throw range? Her dash speed or distance it covers? It’s not like Rose is proficiently cogent in any one department.*
Can’t you Option Select Throw?
because Rose has fireballs (a safer way to deal chip damage than Cammys specials), and a great cross up attack (j MK) that can lead to mix ups (not great mix ups, but whatever…).
Cammy lacks both fireballs (of course) and a good cross up tool other than Cannon Spike, and it only works against chars with weak wake up game (for example against Rose, btw).
So a turtler with a good reversal that is good teching throws and keeping the distance is a nightmare for Cammy. A reliable overhead could help her a bit to force her opponent to not hold down back (for example Sakura is good in this field because she has a good overhead that forces you to not rely in down back too much).
Of course, if Cammy gets an overhead and Rose doesnt get anything, Cammy would be even more better char than Rose, but the idea is that all chars need some tweaks to balance the match ups, Rose then should have more tools to deal damage (reflect FADC into ultra, combo into SThrow… you know).
still, it is fair to discuss if an overhead normal should be universal for all chars, like for example a sweep normal (all chars have one).
sweeps are different for every character though. some are slides (Vega), some are fast and short (Blanka), some are long and slow (Rose). with overhead, it’s basically the same move no matter what limb. sure some can break focus depending on distance, but whoop-di-doo. that’d be improper usage anyway. and in all honesty, if I see an overhead coming and am in a position to react, it’s pure ultra food.
I’ve actually chipped out turtlers who had huge life leads and must not have realized exactly how much damage they were taking. and by the time they decided to go on offense again, it was too damn late because that’s what I wanted them to do the whole time so I was more prepared than they were (building meter) along with being in the right frame of mind when it comes to my will for winning.
moral of the story: Turtles still have to take steps to win the race. and not everybody needs an overhead.
i agree with you Metro.
Anyways, overheads also can have different qualities; for example speed (Guiles one is fast, Sagats one is slow), number of hits (Ryus one hits twice, others hit once), reach (Blankas one is short, Sakuras one is long) and so on.
All chars could have an overhead as an universal move with different qualities for every char also.
But it is not a “must have” feature, personally i can live with the current situation without problem.
… i wonder if someone from CAPCOM read this forum.
… well in fact i wonder if CAPCOM is really planning to release a tweaked version of SFIV with balance changes for all chars… they look quite satisfied with the current state of the game (and thats no good for us, for sure).
Wasn’t there an interview where they confirmed that at the time they AREN’T working on an update?
What would rose’s overhead look like? I suggest a move that kinda looks like the Banishing Flat, except with her scarf. Yup.
Ok here’s a couple of combos
Cr.MkxxCr.MpxxSpiral/Spark. Cr.Mk to Cr.Mp should be a normal link that becomes easier with Counter hit.
Cr.lpxxCr.lpxxCr.lpxxSt.Mk - this would be for setup as the range it pushes back on block and hit it pretty decent about a square/square1/2 and it ends on St.Mk wich is +2 on hit which could allow mix up’s ect and make a decent block string when performed correctly.
St.MpxxCr.MpxxSpiral/Spark can we lossen this up bit maybe a 2 frame link thats all i ask as of right now this kind of difficult to pull off on a Jump in combo which is weird since its much easier is you do it from standing. While you might say just do it from standing
that takes away from the total damage.
Cr.MPxxCr.MpxxSpiral - this would be a counter hit combo. Its just a simple combo which would hit for decent damage and stun.It reqires a counter hit so it will have situational use.
F.hk to Cr.Hk - should be both a link and counter hit combo.(both) Counter hit would just make this a much easier link. Even if F+HK doesn’t become a OH(though i hope it will) It think this should still become a combo it has restrictions so it will take skill to pull of but would be a nice addtion to rose’s game.
Cr.lpxxCr.lpxxSpiral should be alot easier to land its a really tight cancle at the moment and it almost serves no purpose as Cr.Mpxxspiral does the same damage but a little less stun. If this combo was made bit eaiser it would open up rosed mind games more since we could spiral or go for the cr.Mpxxspiral instead. So just lossen up the timing on this.
SlidexxCr.lp/Cr.lk this should be a counter combo or at least a link i would even take it as a counter combo. This would be nice since we could open people up and not have to worry about taking a hit when starting a combo and we still have the option of using Cr.MP for mor damage.
thats all i have for now.
Yea, I agree that the c.lp, c.lp to spiral should be easier. It baffles me how easy it is to link moves with Ryu. Not even trying I can hit a c.lp, c.lp, SRK. Hell…I dont even play as Ryu!
This is totally off topic but I’ve always wished for even back in Alpha was a mid air reflect. Basicly her j.HP should reflect projectiles forward. This would make her god vs projectiles.
That would be cool…but probably a bit too much control over projectiles. This would allow us to get in against sagat a lot easier as the arc of reflect would throw him off.
However this would never happen.
And, almost forgot lol, LESS LINKS in BnB combos D:
All I want is St.RH to hit all crouching characters and cr.strong to be at the Alpha2/3 angle again.
Iunno about that. seems like that would encourage a mash mindset when playing as Rose. I like having to both acknowledge and execute those situational combos. besides s.HK (I assume you mean the close version) is a good anti-air that its place is fulfilled there while s/c.HP has to fill that role against crouching characters. and if s.HP didn’t do that instead of s.HK, then it’d probably have no use at all.
Well I don’t. cr.strong made rose in A2 and far s.RH used to be good at the end of strings to stuff poke attempts once you got out of range.
I’d also change something about her ultra. It sucks. I think she takes too much damage as well.