Not sure when or where you’ve seen anyone say such a thing but i’ll entertain your ignorance anyway and ask what would be so wrong with all characters having a reliable a reversal in your oh so great and knowledgable fighting game pro opinion? Please do tell…
And please only answer after you’ve stopped confusing the term “reliable reversal” with DPs.
Damn. On some real shit, Metro…what are you talking about?
If Rose always have to be ready to tech a throw or eat an attack into a combo, where the majority of the other characters can at least make people pause and think about the calculated risks involved, then comparatively she is screwed on wakeup. And just because other characters have gimped wakeup options(like Vega), doesn’t make it acceptable. His shit needs to get fixed too.
And not everyone has the same reversal tools:some have dp’s, some have teleports, and some have counters…but most everyone has something that should be taken into account. The characters who don’t are flawed, and since Rose doesn’t have one of these tools…she’s flawed.
Again, not seeing what the big issue is.
Emblem Lord brought an interesting debate about universal options. There are some gameplay mechanics in SFIV that, at least in the current version, dictate the tier list position.
these mechanics are mostly:
Akuma would be an exception for the second, although he is so versatile and has big damage combos that he doesnt really need it.
give Rose a reliable reversal and a reliable combo into ultra and she is top tier (as it should be :P)
The prob with rose wakeup isnt to become a sandbag, of course u can be ready to tech and block everything.
BUT, the main problem is to be FORCED to block, so your opponent can be one time ahead from you.
While other char have other option that make your opponent ask himself ‘should i take the risk of doing that?’. Against Rose, they can do whatever they want, what does they fear anyway? a Ex Spiral that hit at frame 13?
haha ok. truth of the matter is all characters DO have a reliable reversal. not all characters have an ABUSABLE reversal. This requires at least some paying attention on behalf of those who don’t have an abusable reversal. Rose’s best reversals are her super and ultra which can be said of most of the cast. Granted it’d be unlikely to punish a mistake, it surely can be done. Their loss is your gain, right?
Y’all get off my case. I know Rose isn’t great, but stop complaining based on her tier position.
One thing that isn’t quite a reversal but, as I had discussed with Roogle awhile back, can be treated as such vs grabs is her sc.mk. I think a lot of you underestimate this tool. It actually falls in line with Rose’s various mind games.
Anyway Imma go see if Emblem is on to see if he will in fact make me scream “tiger”
Haha. Doing something at the moment. I’ll be on my ps3 in maybe 15 mins.
I wish I could watch!
We just got done playing. Fuck, I’m starving. Anyway final score was 30-0 me. Metro surprised me. I expected him to be a total scrub but he was decent. Anyway, there was a definite skill gap and since I was using Sagat, well I don’t think anyone expected the results to be much different.
Anyway Metro you did some weird shit, some unsafe shit and some good shit.
First off, GREAT use of close mk. That shit messed me up when I wanted to go for grabs. Work on your hit confirms although I’m sure you noticed even I dropped combos. That’s what 3 bars will do to you I suppose. You need to punish harder. If I whiff a TU in your face you need to Ultra me OR do FA lvl 2, low fierce xx hk spiral. Your main punisher should be low fierce xx hk spiral.
You need to be grabbing more. Way more. Rose needs to be grabbing alot.
You also tried to play Rose vs me like your Ryu or something. You aren’t gonna outzone me so don’t try. Building meter is one thing, but you would actually run away from me when I tried to play footsies with you. This isn’t wise. You need to be hanging out at mid range doing sweeps, forward, roundhouse and low strong. I’m sure you noticed I can punish slides on pure reaction with stand short xx TU/TS. Don’t rely on slide in this match. Most Sagats lack the reaction to punish it like I can but eventually other Sagats will the level where they are able to do so.
IMO Rose shouldn’t waste her time trying to reflect. She is better off just absorbing for meter.
I’m sure you noticed that meaty low short OS’s pretty much all of Rose’s options. You need to just backdash more. I know you stopped backdashing because you kept eating my meaty TK’s but that’s your best option period. And remember that after you block a meaty low short I will most likely attempt a grab or wait a spli second then go for another pressure string in order to fish for a counter hit. You can get out both situations by being ready with EX spiral or backdash. You just gotta be quick and be able to react.
Still, I can’t lie. This fight is fucking HARD for Rose. For a Rose to beat Sagat, the Sagat has to fuck up BADLY or just not know wtf to do vs her… Even in our games where I did something dumb, I was always able to make a come back just because Sagat’s options and damage are so good.
GG’s though and I hope now you can see what the others mean when they say Rose is free on wake-up. Is she really free? No. But if I know you have to block most of the time I get free damage from grabs or free frame traps with meaty TK and if you backdash meaty TK can catch you depending on the timing.
Reliable my ass. Seriously. I don’t know much about the game, but this is what I’m assuming it is with EX drill. Its invincible on start up…then the i frames end…then there are a few more start up frames…THEN active frames start.
Wait…as a reversal…your telling me theres a gap btw invincible frames and active frames? That makes it very UNRELIABLE. The definition of reliable is that you can count on it when the chips are down. yes it can be baited, but i cant count on this crap…I can be thrown out of it, dped out of it, ex tatsu’ed out of it, SPD, counter drilled (not ex), or just flat out c.lked. No like seriously…those few frames makes it a move you cant count on. Actually it becomes a liability to use it.
NOW.
No hate on metro…I think anyone who reps the scarf deserves respect. But I mean, way to put your foot in your mouth. Would you really expect a different outcome? No disrespect to anyone, including saqs and luffy…but if those cats had problems with El’s Sagat…
I dunno…
Honestly…real talk…i feel safer getting off the ground with my Saikyo Bro, Dan.
And this is why I created the “Ultra Reaction Time” thread. If Sagat wiffs a TU, why the hell are you not going to go for an option that is like…what…450+ damage at full?
Eh…I’m falling off topic.
Now that its been settled…rose needs to be fixed up…Lets get back on track. I’ll start the discussion at Spacing options. Are we happy that we have to make sure we’re using the right drill for the right spacing in a combo? Sometimes we’re so far taht we have to burn super meter just to get the combo to hit. Same for Soul Spark. I think drill is fine, but I’d like lp spark to be more reliable in a combo, and more reliable in a FADC combo.
Whats wrong Metro? U fall for SAGAT c.lk ? uhuhuh
Ultra on reaction to whiffed attacks and to break pressure in block strings gaps (although this last one doesnt work very well against experienced players that knows how to bait your ultra) is a must with our poor Rose IMHO.
because he has no real punish options other than her ultra… missing oportunities to land it leads to loose the match usually.
onto Drills, its pathetic we have to burn meter just to connect a basic combo. At least, EX Drill should inflict more damage.
As some of us suggested before, sparks should have little more pushback to allow it to be combo reliable… although not too much because then she would not be able to connect a cr MP after FADCing a LP Spark!
other option would be a slightly faster recovery, to make it safer in a combo. But well, no biggie, reliable reversal and a way to combo into ultra are the priorities hands down.
Where is metroxylon now? 30-0 huh, that is one long session 
Cahmon now, if he’s 30-9 with Saqs, he pretty much knows Rose. I’d like to entertain that challenge but no ps3 
Trust me, if anyone knows the value of sc.mk it’s me, but it doesn’t help you when you’re cornered trying to get off the ground having to fight off couching shorts(as I’m sure EL showed to you during your matches)
…all this Rose talk almost makes me want to play this game again, but T6>>>>>>. Maybe I’ll fire it up before I go to this tourney on Saturday.
Show us Rose power ShinkuuR!
Looke up B3SToftheBEST. Not as challenging and not Sagat but can give you a good idea of what it’s like to be up against someone that knows how to exploit Roses lack of reversal on wake up.
Also I saw that FT7 with Mike Ross. Good stuff and gdlike reaction on ultraing those EX Headbutts. I was wondering why you werent using c.HP against his jump ins. He was jumping at you pretty randomly.
That was my first legit Honda match. I was too worried about getting away from him that I couldn’t adapt fast enough. It was FT5 but Valle wanted us to go to seven. That just shows you how fast high level players adapt. I had the same results with Combofiend. 5-0 and then he beat me 6-0 with Abel.
At the end of the day, I know not having a reversal is why I could not win 10-0. She has to back dash or block and does not do enough damage to scare people from rushing her down. She has an awesome offensive game but absolutely no defense. I’m sorry to say, defense wins championships.
gobble
I wasn’t really expecting to win at all. In fact I wasn’t giving it my all anyway; just because I physically couldn’t. I said before my stick is on its last days, and boy did it show. I love getting s.mk instead of slide when trying to evade. 
I’d say 70% of our matches were close, if that’s a fair assessment to you, Emblem. So I feel I was by no means “raped”, though it was the best sex I’ve had in awhile.
I’d say Emblem knows the match up exponentially greater than me. I thought I could do mid range HP sparks vs his wake-up, since it’s always been “safe” vs other players; Sagat in particular.
Time for my apology:
So when I said my stick is broken, I mean my jab, and mk buttons are basically touch sensitive; which makes grabbing or focus basically a flip of the coin for working. It also means I might not want to attempt a grab because if you’re ready to tech, and jab comes out instead for me, you’ll get to throw. Sometimes I’ll accidentally get a focus when using MP. If you saw how I played, this would make more sense to you. But ultimately, this is why I couldn’t go into the set with victory in mind. Should I buy a HRAP3-SA some day, be ready for a run back Emblem :china:
Aside from that, I definitely wasn’t observant enough, and tried to poke too often. I guess I wasn’t expecting you to have a hair trigger on those uppercuts 
but if they work, I can’t say it’s a bad strategy. and yes I need to work on hit confirming and maximizing my damage output. I guess if I was trying to zone you, it was because I wanted to bait out an uppercut. I can’t remember too well.
And when I was actually reflecting your tiger shots (or trying to), it was because I didn’t want to risk using a normal spark vs a possible EX tiger shot knock down/juggle etc.
I could go on with the endless excuses of why I played the way I did, but I’ve got some pie to eat. GG!
