She's a Fixxer upper: SSF4 Rose Fixxes

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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She wasn’t exactly good in SFA3 or CFJ. She went from top tier in SFA2 to low tier in SFA3 and CFJ yet very little was changed about her in those games. SF4 only made minor changes. Soul Throw was not a good anti-air in SFA3 or CFJ, she was never able to combo c.LP into Soul Spiral (that’s SF4 only), her Soul Spark was always slow and laggy in every game, her jump arc was always huge and easy to anti-air, her own anti-airs were always pretty weak in general, her slide never went under fireballs (again, SF4 only), and she never had particularly useful link combos in any game.

She never had an overhead. Her stamina was never good. She lost fireball wars. Her Soul Throw was never invulnerable. She never had a useful reversal that wasn’t a super/CC/VC.

Her shamwow does basically the exact same thing as her Aura Soul Throw, but better. She doesn’t need lv.2/3 Aura Soul Spark, it would just fuck up her Spiral->AS.Spark hitconfirm if anything.

Giving her the Soul Illusion back is a high probability but so what, it’s going to be as bad, if not worse, than SFA3’s version – or SF3 Yang’s version for that matter since he has the same super. In other words they won’t let her do unblockables or redizzy, they’ll make sure to avoid those bugs. So without guard bar it’s not going to be very useful. And FYI she didn’t have it in CFJ.

SF4 Rose isn’t really much different from her SFA3 or CFJ incarnations except that they took away the push-back from her Soul Spark startup, slowed her Reflect down, and sped up her Soul Spiral enough that it combos from c.LP and any strength combos from c.MP.

But if you think about it she has all the same moves and they all work the same way they use to except they gave her c.LP into Soul Spiral and let her slide under fireballs which she wasn’t able to do before… in exchange for her Reflect being nerfed. Big deal.

Exactly. Rose isn’t completely changed like Cammy was changed. She just sucks, which isn’t any different from her SFA3 and CFJ status. If people want SFA2 Rose back then they just mean they want her to be the same character she is now except buffed/strengthened for no reason other than: they like her and want their fav to be buff.

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Just because she played one way back in 96-98 doesn’t mean that her playstyle has to be stuck on this stone path. They can make changes giving her and over head, better reversal, slightly better start up on Fireballs, stronger spirals/combos. An not everybody asking for to get a buff wants her to go back to top 4(2 in most A2 players eye’s).

I cant speak for everybody but I only want buffs because what she has now shows she had/has the potienal too be better. Yeah i have made request for other things like expanded combos,overhead,life buff etc. but hey they said tell us what you want so i let them know.

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I’m sorry, but I think you’re very wrong. Rose is not low tier in Street Fighter Alpha 3 and she was far more versatile than she is in Street Fighter IV.

Yes, it’s true that Soul Illusion was adjusted because it was probably way too overpowered in Street Fighter Alpha 2, but there are far more uses than its straight up offensive use. Mainly, you can bait activation and trade with it while under Soul Illusion, and you can set up unblockables.

The main difference between Level 3 Aura Soul Throw and Illusion Spark is that Level 3 Aura Soul Throw was effective in a combo. Illusion Spark and Level 3 Aura Soul Throw appear to share the same type of usage, but they really don’t – Illusion Spark, like many of the Ultras in the game, is much, much slower than Level 3 Aura Soul Throw in any version of the Street Fighter Alpha series.

Level 1 Aura Soul Throw in any form was better than EX Soul Throw. Soul Throw was never a good anti-air with invulnerability, but it used to have a much larger hitbox that was shrunk after Street Fighter Alpha 2. I’ve made long, long posts about Soul Throw before and I don’t feel like repeating myself, but it’s a decent anti-air at best in its oldest form from Street Fighter Alpha and Street Fighter Alpha 2.

Everything you mentioned that changed is a big deal. Reflect could be used as anti-air in Street Fighter Alpha 3. It could be used on an opponent’s wakeup, too, especially if they lacked a shoryuken-type move. The pushback from Soul Spark was invaluable to spacing and setting up a strategy for attack. Pretty much every move had ulterior purposes that are now rendered pointless in the current version.

Rose has hardly been the best character in any Street Fighter aside from Street Fighter Alpha 2, but she was never this bad. Like I said, I attribute it to mainly being a console character rather than the fundamentals of the character, though.

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Like I said, you’re clueless and just dont know. Im not gonna fault you for it as its not readily apparent until you play people that are really good and know the Rose matchup. Obviously you’re not there yet.

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So basically what Metro is saying that if Sagat knocks Rose down its completely legit that he can OS all her options without any real thought. And if you get put in that situation it’s your fault. It’s not Rose’s fault despite her having shitty tools, and going up against the best character in the game with the best overall tools.

Ok, seriously Metro niggas get knocked down. Fuckin Gouki gets knocked down and he has some of the best options period in the game. Thing is though when Gouki gets knocked down it’s a minor annoyance unless he’s near the corner in which case things get slightly more difficult.

Rose by comparison is in mortal danger every time her face kisses the floor and if she’s near the corner then you might as well dig her grave right where she got knocked down because that bitch is finished.

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I think this should be reserved to be used by Mike Watson.:wgrin:

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According to every tier list I’ve ever seen (JP, US, EU lists), including current ones, she’s low in SFA3. To my knowledge no one ranks her mid or high in SFA3. And based on my experiences playing as her and against her, I agree with these lists that she is low. I’m not saying she’s bottom tier in SFA3, she’s not, but I didn’t say she was. She’s definitely below mid tier though. But think what you want. And in CFJ she can’t come close to competing against the VSav, RE, or 3S characters. Maybe she isn’t trash there but she can’t compete.

Yeah Illusion had uses in SFA3, mostly because of unblockable setups and also because Spiral hit three times letting her chip life and guardbar with Illusion. But I can’t see it being of much importance in SSF4. I very highly doubt they’d give her unblockables with it when they tried their best to get rid of unblockables, and without guardbar or three hit drills she’s not going to have much use for it other than neutralizing FA use. That’s speculation of course, but if they give her unblockables I’d be thoroughly surprised though.

The only way to combo into AS.Throw was a ground combo, as in c.MP->AS.Throw which was not easily hitconfirmable unless it was a CH. She can at least easily hitconfirm the shamwow off a CH FA1 or FA2/3 crumple which means she can also EX Spark->FA2->Shamwow. That gives her about as much use with the shamwow as with AS.Throw. Not the same but at least it’s confirmable. Meanwhile she has her super for stuff like c.LP/c.MP->Spiral->AS.Spark or HP Reflect->AS.Spark which are ridiculously easy hitconfirms, she can even link c.LK to c.LP to hitconfirm off a low.

Reflect was not a good anti-air in SFA3. Maybe you got that idea because you can activate first then Reflect to start a VC but it can’t even beat Shoto j.MK let alone any decent jump-in like Claw j.HP.

The only thing I miss from her previous incarnations is her normal air throw. Yeah she’s pretty shitty in SF4, but she’s still Rose. Meanwhile SF4 Cammy is barely Cammy at all.

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The tier lists that I am familiar with rank her towards the lower end of the mid tier. Sorry, when I see “low tier”, I instantly think bottom of the barrel.

The point is that Rose, even in Street Fighter Alpha 3 gutted form, had a lot of tools that she simply lacks in Street Fighter IV. I’ve been playing Street Fighter Alpha 3 on GGPO and Kaillera for years and I feel like I can remain competitive even with V-Akuma players with infinite setups and all of that.

I think what they’d do for Soul Illusion in a game where there is no guard bar is certainly increase the damage and maybe allow for combos that wouldn’t be possible normally or would normally be only a one frame link.

The reason that Aura Soul Throw was better than EX Soul Throw is because it captured the opponent no matter what type of juggle state they were in – whether they were landing from a jump, juggled in the air by you, or even mid-air from one of their own special moves. I think the system in Street Fighter IV is a bit different in that there are different aerial states, only one of which EX Soul Throw can catch.

There are a few other ways that you can launch the opponent into the air, mainly using Reflect mid-combo in the corner and ending with Soul Throw or Aura Soul Throw for a lot of damage.

Level 3 Aura Soul Throw is much, much more combo friendly than Illusion Spark, though. That’s just the case. Level 3 Aura Soul Throw can hit in so many ways – whether it’s just from a crouching medium punch and you’re guessing or whether you hit from a jump-in; it works anywhere Soul Spiral would.

Reflect as anti-air is my thing in Street Fighter Alpha 3. It feels a lot more safe to me than crouching fierce, but, you know, I’ve been playing it for so long that it might just be my own familiarity with the hitboxes of each version rather than it being meant to be used like that. In any case, with the modifications to Reflect, it can never be used for any such thing, although I think fierce Reflect might work on some characters as a type of anti-air (if timed right, obviously) in Street Fighter IV.

Rose’s old aerial throw, Soul Fade, was just part of the Street Fighter Alpha 3 system, I think. Although, she was unique in the sense that she was the only character with an aerial hold. You know, waggle the joystick to increase the damage and number of hits and all of that. Everyone else simply threw.

I don’t have enough experience with Capcom Fighting Jam to say whether she was able to compete or not. I think that may have been a problem with the Alpha characters and the system rather than with Rose herself; her supers seemed solid enough.

We’ve played against each other before in Street Fighter Alpha 3, haven’t we?

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Did I say nobody gets knocked down? I’m pretty sure I didn’t. All I said is it should be a greater concern to make sure you don’t get knocked down if you’re gonna have trouble getting back up.

And what are you talking about OS’ing all her options? She only has one viable option on wake up that isn’t blocking or back dash.

You keep talking like Rose is somehow incapable of blocking, or that your tricks are guaranteed to work. get off your top tier high horse and prove what you mean. Knock me down, and prove that I’m dead because of it. Granted I haven’t played much recently and my stick is broken; that’s aside the point. Next time I’m on I’ll send you an invite and you must kill me after knocking me down.

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Will you die after one knockdown. Nah. Not unless you mess up badly. Will you take damage because of it? I would say 90% of the time especially if you don’t have meter.

Will most of your losses be due to this weakness?

Definitely.

And of course it’s of great concern to never get knocked down. But Rose lacks the tools to keep this weakness under wraps.

Look…you know what…fuck it.

The woman is low tier. Accept it. She is there for a reason. Who the fuck are you anyway? I bet money your Rose ain’t shit compared to Saqs and Luffy. Normally I don’t bring up skill levels in debates but the way you talkin to two players who are most certainly more skilled then you is disrespectful as hell. You don’t know dick about your own fucking character.

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only reason I’m dissing them is they want the entire roster to conform to the idea that everybody should have a “reliable reversal” AKA panic buttons. Not even Sakura’s DP is good for reversals which shows that wasn’t the dev’s top priority for this game.

But what do you know, the time I actually get around to challenging you, you duck me on the grounds that I have a depreciative attitude. And you main a top tier character? Yeah that shows you’re legit. Go jump a log, chump.

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We can play. I don’t duck anyone.

But you challenged me. So you send the invite. Do you not know proper etiquette when it comes to this sort of thing?

And Rose having a viable reversal wouldn’t change her gameplay or anything. It would just make her less free on wake-up.

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You are the ONLY ONE that doesnt want a reversal for Rose :nunchuck:

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Reliable reversals that Rose has had in the past:

Street Fighter Alpha 2:

  • Crouching Medium Punch
  • Level 2 Aura Soul Throw
  • Level 3 Aura Soul Throw
  • Level 1 Aura Soul Spark
  • Level 2 Aura Soul Spark

Street Fighter Alpha 3:

  • Level 2 Aura Soul Throw
  • Level 3 Aura Soul Throw

I’m not too hopeful for something revolutionary unless they create a new move. I guess this also goes with what Xenozip. was saying earlier.

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EmblemLord is right as well as myself and alot of other people, Rose is shitty in SF4. You get knocked down with Rose, your best option is to be patience, block, tech-throw, and look for an opening, or in some cases you gotta take a hit/throw to avoid bigger damage at times to get some momentum going. Oh an Option-Select owns the shit out of Rose, that means no back-dashing, no jumping, no reversal, no nothing. Gotta do what I said earlier.

You guys should just ignore Metroxylon trolling and shit talking, he did that shit to me in another thread awhile back ago. I am 100% sure if EmblemLord and Metro play, Sagat is gonna make Rose scream TIGER TIGER TIGER! Like Saqs said, its a wrap once a Sagat player learns the match up, this match up is very tough for Rose to win against any good Sagat player that knows the match up. I never seen Metro play nor played him, doubt hes an high level Rose player but who knows.

IMHO everything has been said about Rose that hasn’t been brought up, we can only hope Capcom give her the proper buffs she need in SSFIV. There is nothing else that needs to brought up about her gameplay wise.

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The best buff to my Rose was Cammy :wink:

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I hate sagat but el is my hero… That’s real.

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I wish i could record EL raping Metro lol.

And dont think it’s just Sagat that gives Rose wake up nightmares. The Shotos all do. Especially a good Ken that can consitantly kara throw and option select Shoryu/HK. You’re in HELL. Mass rapage ensues if you’re cornered

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Ryu safe jump + OS srk backdash = ggs!

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Wow haven’t seen xenozip in a while.

Yeah so I’m pretty much with the majority here.