ST with invincibility frames? No thanks. If you want a flashkick, use Guile.
What’s all this mumbo jumbo with people thinking ST shouldn’t have invincibility? I see nothing wrong with it having 1 or 2 frames of startup invincibility on at least the EX version, and I main Vega.
yeah , some people are getting bent out of shape for no reason at all
EX ST NEEDS I Frames , being the ONLY character in the game without a single I frame including the EX moves is just not right . ( save the backflips as they are ASS )
Whilst I certainly understand Jozhear’s point of view, most of us here are talking like if EX ST or ST get invul Vega gets nothing else, which is clearly not the case (let us hope not at least), if EX ST or ST had invul frames more options would be open, although if he does not get invul on either there are other issues to be addressed (and still have the ability to have a get the fuck off me move)
At the core is the ability to free jump in on Vega, this in the corner, coupled with mask loss this becomes a killer, Joz is pointing out other options it would be best for all involved to give some credence to some of the posts, I do not play enough presently to warrant giving an opinion on invul frames but more tools certainly cannot hurt.
I know one of my biggest groan moments is when I get swept of EX SHC, SWEPT, last time I checked I am FUCKING AIRBORNE.
Making Izuna safer considering the practice and timing you need to consistently pull it off would not go amiss either. I am working on a collected list at present if you have anything that really pisses you off PM me I will put it in said list.
Cheers
Craw
8 frame poke normals. How are you going to use low forward and far fierce effectively when they’re that slow? Fixes, plox.
This and Joz’ is exactly make take on this. Some of his normals need to be adressed. (Although some of these suggestions might seem ridiculous to you, I always compared them to Chun Li’s counterparts framedata-wise to not overdo it)
St.hp
This thing has an 8 frame startup and 23 frames of recovery. This is simply too much on both ends. I’d suggest a 5-6 frame startup and maybe 18 frames of recovery instead. Also, why does it hit with the fist only, even if he has the Claw on? This is bullshit!
Cr.hp
Startup is pretty good on this (5 frames), but why does it have 27 frames of recovery? -> 18-19 recovery frames instead. I won’t address the hitbox because it apparently already got fixed.
St.hk
Startup is great but hitbox could use some buff so it can be used at a bit closer distances also.
Cr.hk
Frame disadvantage on block is terrible… It’s too unsafe.
St.mp
Imo this should have just a little bit less range than cr.mp, but same frame-data otherwise.
Cr.mk
Startup reduced to 5-6 frames because it’s so good on block/recovery already.
St.mk
Same here.
This, and you’ll never ever be worried about an EX ST anymore. Either way his pokes need to be addressed. If they only fix his ST, I’m going to facepalm an entire day.
^^ This…srsly most of you people are just in this thread for arguments sake >_>
Yeah, the amount of ignorance here is really really high. I guess it’s been a repetition for a very long time, so I see Joz’ point.
The main normal I gripe about is his slide (d.HK) Every time it’s blocked it sacrifices so much frame advantage to the opponent. Even Dictator’s slide can be manipulated by spacing to be even frames, but not Claw’s.
My main want for Claw was always options, more options for wake up in the event of being knocked down. The initial EX Scarlet Terror thing wasn’t about being uber busted or anything it was about deterring opponents from wake up abuse. If it’s true that Bloody High Claw (and/or Splendid Claw) have invincibility on start up then I don’t mind so much.
I am definitely all for Claw getting those better keep-away tools that were mentioned, I enjoy using him in such a way however statistically you will be knocked down and at this point a seasoned player will destroy you. That’s what takes the fun out of the game for me most of the time. Even a single error in movement for Claw will simply kill him almost outright, if he gets dizzy it’s the absolute worst because he gets knocked down again.
Getting knocked down and destroyed is what takes the fun out of the character for me. It’s not even about tournament viability for my perspective because I do still use him during early rounds.
I don’t think it’s fair for anyone to say what isn’t needed, because these are opinions and wishes which to that player would make Claw just more enjoyable to play. You can’t blame anyone for that.
Something is needed for wake up , if the new ultra works, that fine with me… BHC will probably not hit meaty jump ins on wake up even with its rumored invul start up, because when vega is at the wall, the meaty jump in should already be complete.
Invul ex st… there is nothing wrong with that… sacrificing an EX bar for punishing a jump in is not something that can be really abused is it? Most matches i dont have THAT many EX to spare.
I saw in Cody’s video his small knife chips on block now i have no idea if/how cody can lose his knife or what it does to him to wield it…,but it would be cool if vega’s big ass claw did too… coupled with an actual overhead this will stop the unending downback bullshit against vega i see time and time again to wich i currently can only throw or chip with lp rcf…it also justifies the loss of his equipment and dip in his health.
But it might be a bad idea if rcf is good, since that can be a decent chipper.
Then fix some recoveries and i think vega would be pretty solid. His keep away game seems sufficient enough to me…, but i wouldnt complain about a few little tweaks there.
Pretty sure that Cody’s knife still drops when he gets hit, so that balances out the chip damage from it. Unless Vega’s claw drops off in fewer hits, I don’t see it doing chip in the future.
Well, if someone jumped in on you in the corner, you might be able to get it off because the jump in attack still has to wait 4 frames of recovery on the ground after landing. If the Bloody High Claw stays true, it’s 1 frame start up from the wall and some number of frames based on distance to bounce onto the wall (greater than 5 when in the corner). So if the opponent is using a jump in attack you could probably tell from their position whether or not you’ll hit them.
Gule’s flash kick doesn’t work right either.
Balrog’s buffalo butt is a better example.
^LOL true…
Really Vega didnt need a trademark aa due to him being hardly ever really being in the position with his fottsies and depending on the game mixup game so dominant.
Though, if someone jumps at you from half sreen yes you should be able to punish that
You kind of misread…I said what is vega so good at (present tense) that Invulnerable ST is over the top, and what does invulnerable ST take away from the character. What does invulnerable ST enable Vega to do, that you think he shouldn’t?
Comments on your list:
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“Better startup on his specials” is vague. Which specials are too slow? (Obviously RCF, but I mean others).
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Most of those changes are things vega should have had to begin with, ALONG with invulnerable ST, since it’s pretty much all stuff he used to have anyway. Again, he’s had it before, and that wasn’t OP.
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Again, without Invulnerability, St is borderline useless. I’ve already illustrated why in earlier posts.
If capcom insists on not having invulnerable ST, than they should bring back all the other old vega nonsense. Stored Scarlet terrors. The super turbo izuna drop (hitbox + damage), and the super turbo walldive speed. Slides safe on block. Backflips building signifigant meter and being MUCH faster. Super only activating on hit. His old standing roundhouse and c.HP.
Hell, even WITH those changes scarlet terror should still have EX invulnerability.
I would make the argument that it takes a player ALOT longer to get to a certain skill level with Vega than it takes a player to get to the same skill level with other characters.
Even though I’ve spent the past 10 months maining Vega, learning all of his match-ups, learning how to stay away, and how to punish most whifs depending on the situation, I still get beat by the same tactic. I get thrown once and the opponent abuses cross-overs, block-strings, and tick throws.
You shouldn’t main a character, learn him inside and out, and still get beat by these lame tactics simply because the character has no real answer for it besides running away. I don’t really want backflips to be faster because, even though they suck and are ridiculously predictable, it still promotes running away and not being offensive.
Look, some people like the whole “keep your distance and poke, dont let them get in, and being evasive” playstyle for Vega, and thats fine. I’ve become pretty close to mastering that playstyle since I’ve had no other choice. However, ST Vega is what I grew up on. I’m used to being all-up-in-your-face with him. I’m used to opponents having to actually adapt to my playstyle instead of abusing the same playstyle over and over again.
We can play that way too. If you want an SRK, go play Ryu.
And was nowhere near as interesting to play as SF4 Vega. ST Vega wasn’t exactly deep, he just excelled in everything basic.
If you think length of time playing him is relevant, then I’ve been playing him since Turbo and I don’t think ST needs invincibility. Personally, I don’t think having played him in the past is relevant in the slightest, but it’s your call.
The charge can be kept during crossovers. Hell, it’s easier than it was in previous games.
As for throwing it out early, this would be greatly helped by simply fixing its hitbox. Right now, the short and forward versions miss crouching targets, and the forward and roundhouse versions don’t hit right the way to his feet.
Scarlet doesn’t need to be invincible to be useful. Right now, it’s one of his best damage options. Just because it was his dedicated anti air before, doesn’t mean it should be now. Fixing his backflips to not be super punishable would greatly help.
As for what to do when Vega gets put in a corner, how about not getting put in a corner? Yes, Akuma rapes in corner pressure, but he does this to most characters. I have no problem with Vega being weak to pressure if he has strengths in other areas to compensate. I think it would be much more boring to simply turn Scarlet into a crappy SRK and just cover gaps to make him an ‘all round’ character with a few gimmicks like his SF2 incarnation.
Emphasise his current SF4 playstyle and make his existing stuff work the way it was intended. That’s a much more interesting character.
SRK being a reversal with invinciblity, meaning an option for wake-up games. So yeah, if you want one, go play Ryu
…or Guile
or Dhalsim
or Honda
or Sakura
or Viper
or Rufus
or Zangief
or Chun Li
or Bison
or Seth
or Sagat
or Fei Long
or Gen
or Dan
or Cammy
or Akuma
or Ken
or Blanka
or Balrog
or Sagat
or Gouken
or Abel
and of course Rose
hmm…
I think that’s everybody.
Well I am sure the new characters except Juri will all invincible reversals or a 3rd option for wake-up games too. When the Super drops, I’ll be sure to update the list. 
^You forgot Rose. =/
I did indeed, and even Rose has EX-Soul Spiral and Ultra. I will edit that post for completetion.