Her specials are negative in SFxT as well but very hard to punish because Of the push back. All version of rhinos horn is safe or plus on hit. Ex is plus 4 but people will not like that. All versions of mallet smash are plus on block. Always have been because it is way to easy to react to and interrupt. I wouldn’t listen to this guy
Did anybody else notice cr.MK is cancellable? Cuz I was definitely doing it today.
Also, a weird glitch where sometimes EX DP makes the enemy fly way too high in the sky. Not sure what causes it but it happened 4 times today when I was playing.
Really crouch medium kick is now cancleable!!
As for ex DP I’m not sure. Have you tried to combo after they rocket sky high
I know that lol (I still play xT you know Pouts). I wanted specific answers to those questions though. I appreciate your response nonetheless though.
The EX DP was said day 1. I think it was if the enemy is hit with EX DP at the Apex of their jump it launches them to the top of the screen.
It seems like HK is also special cancelable 2:24
Reference notes I made from observing the footage.
Lynx Tail - Faster, FADC @ 2nd hit(possibly more combo potential), handstand animation during recovery was removed(unsure about EX), looks to have insane recovery
*HK Lynx = Looks really safe as blockstring ender
Cr.Mk - definitely faster, skeptical about reach, now Special cancel-able
St.Mp - Faster, not sure if both hits are still cancel-able
DF.Hk(Slide) - Faster start-up and recovery, range looks similar, punishable on block(-4 or more)
Cr.Lk - looks slightly faster, Chain-able w/ itself, very low-profile(makes Sakura’s Light tatsu whiff completely)
Cr.Mp - definitely faster
St.Lp - FAST AS FUCK, great anti-air potential
Rhino Horn(Mk) - looks a little floaty, similar to xTekken, (armor breaks?)
*EX Rhino = quick start-up, armor breaks, knocks down from long distance(read: not Maximum)
*EX Rhino goes thru projectiles
Floaty, thin jump similar to Guile
J.Hk - MAD RANGE, combos to Sweep, might have a really good hitbox like Dudley’s (beats Sakura’s Cr.Hp for free)
Cr.Hk(sweep) - Definitely faster
FA - looks very similar to Adon’s, possibly same range, Forward dash cancel is SUPER FUCKING QUICK and covers nice amount of ground
Cr.Lp - looks the same as xTekken, still not Chain-able, special cancel-able
U2(Healing) - NERF THIS SHIT, SERIOUSLY, but can be punished very easily at unsafe distance
Spin Scythe - Definitely looks faster, still kinda unsafe unless last two hits are issued
*Might combo on crouchers from Cr.Mp(?), first two hits definitely touches crouchers whether on block or hit
*can’t combo from St.Lk, EX is definitely hella safe on block
Scratch Wheel - Faster, Super cancel-able, EX = 3 frame-start-up, but can/will trade
*First hit trade looks to float the opp for more combo(and reset?) opportunities
*EX = Full body invicibility?
St.Hk - NOW SPECIAL CANCEL-ABLE!!!
F.Mk - Much faster
F.Mp - Faster aswell
Mallet Mash(Mp?) - Quick as fuck + huge distance = HOLY SHIT, EX = GODLIKE
*Lp Mallet = faster than xTekken Mallet
Throws - Awesome range
Super - get’s beat out of easily, even from the sky
St.Lk - looks the same, maybe faster(?)
J.Mk - Still crosses up
Hope this helps, somewhat. These are just my own mental notes compared to when I was using Elena 24/7 on xTekken.
So Cr.MK and HK are now special cancelable? That is sexy
^ Yep, now her St.HP > St.HK target combo has a purpose, granted if it can combo from any of her jump-ins. More likely from J.Hk.
If she can actually cancel THAT one, which is not guaranteed. Makoto can’t super cancel f.MK xx HK, for example.
Elena fans what do u think about healing? It is getting a lot of flak from other people and I think many just hate the concept despite how useless or useful it ends up being. I just hope the complaints don’t make her healing useless like it was in 3s.
jeez, s.hp was such a garbage normal in xtekken:
13f startup, -8f on hit, -13f on block, ~45 total frames so god help you if you whiff. oh right, and it doesn’t hit crouching.
just about the only use for that normal (HP > HK TC) was if you confirmed into it from her air MP > HP TC because you could at least make sure they were standing.
in xtekken you were +6f after HP > HK, which let you link into other normals for boost or rhino horn stuff. maybe that’s still in?
good on ya for the observations, but there is no way you can tell that x move is y frames faster when watching a shitty cameraphone recording like that. except mallet smash. that move is crazy fast now.
Good point, comboing three heavies plus a special sounds a bit OP in her case, not even factoring FADC combos. The only fighter I can think of with that kind of damage output is Cammy on a good jump-in and her footsie tools are minimal and hard as hell to master. Glad you said something.
U2 needs the nerf stick. I’m sorry, I’m an Elena loyalist, but I’m also an offensive player who favors rushdown above anything else. Call me biased, but the last thing I want is for Elena’s playstyle to be geared around turtling and keep-away, and U2 at it’s current state seems to be the best tool for that. Long distance throws? Insane footsies? A special that can move her across the screen in one leap? I’ve faced enough scrublike Guy’s, Akuma’s and Juri’s online to understand that with Healing on full blast, that shit will be the bane of my existence and anybody else who suffers from lag while their opp mashes buttons like there’s no tomorrow.
EDIT: And also to add, I firmly believe SF4 is more of a defensive fighter whereas 3Strike is offensive and faster. Parries shutdown any sort of zoning and you usually gotta rely on close combat and oki to get anywhere, damage-wise. Definitely not the case with SF4 where scrubs can come in quickly with a fullscreen special and mash reversal/cr.lp on block, praying that the lag fucks up your reactions and execution. That’s where Elena’s Healing differs in this case. Run/Knock you away, activate Healing on full blast; boom, 45% health restored with 25 seconds left on the clock.
How do you think healing should be balanced then?
According to the Loc Testers, you heal as long as; A) you’re holding the button or; B) you’re attacked. Okay, That seems reasonable to an extent, but personally I believe somewhere between 25% to 30 or 35% health recovery is more balanced than 45% (or even 50%, as completely fucking insane as that sounds). Maybe the 45% is to compensate for some Ultra’s hitting 420+ dmg at full? The only way you’re ever gonna get away with that is if you punish on reaction(or proximity block), Wake-up Ultra or smack 'em hard with a meter-costing Ultra set-up like Cammy or Ryu. Those are gambles that you have to make when hurting your opponent. With U2, it seems almost not a gamble if you’ve learned to put enough space between you and your opponent.
With Healing all you possibly would have to do is either Scratch Wheel FADC backdash and U2 immediately or backthrow to immediate U2. Look at the Elena vs. Rolento video above during the first round. You see how FAST she healed? Imagine seeing that HP recovery at 20 seconds on the clock knowing you’ve been STRUGGLING to get her health down throughout the entire freakin’ round. Don’t get me started about seeing it Online. If Capcom feels compelled to keep her 45% recovery, then at the very least slow down the process. In that case, it’s just punishing the opp for being stupid enough to watch and let it happen. Not punish the opp for struggling with bullshit, only to have MORE bullshit be laid upon them.
that’s just my 2 cents
I’m a Healing 3s player but I don’t like it here. Only place I see using it is against characters who can’t punish it from long distance like most grapplers.
Man healing isn’t that great. Imo because you lose out on damage either way for having it, but since people don’t like it make it give 45% white health instead. But I’m certain that it healed that quickly due to some bug. Just like Rose keeping her U2 sometimes if you hit her the exact frame she activates it.
I assumed a 3 frame start-up on her EX Scratch because watching that trade in one of her matches(Elena vs. Oni) reminded me how well Oni’s DP can stuff most well-timed cross-ups and jump-ins, even during his wake-up.(I main Oni, myself) His DP is 3 frames of start-up across the board. I’m willing to bet cash that’s how much start-up EX Scratch has on this current build.
EDIT: Check the Elena vs. Oni match vid.
@0:22 - Oni blocks Slide from a good distance, he punishes with cr.lk, cr.lp, b.mp>st.hp xx Slash BnB - cr.lk is 4 frame start-up
@0:28 - Oni times his cross-up while Elena rises, her EX DP trades within an inch of Oni touching down with his J.mk - imo it’s gotta be 3 frames of start-up
Most of the stuff you said became faster was already fast in sfxt. eg st.lk sfxt=3 frames. lp= 5. cr.mp= 6 frames mp=5 frame start up etc. J.HK doesn’t even have that much range it’s like Ryu’s jHK, but her jHP has a lot of range. She doesn’t have a 3 frame dp and I don’t think that will change as the only characters that do are shotos and sagat (EX in SFxT). Also the throw range wasn’t even implemented yet the SFxT ports have their SFxT range.
TL;DR: There’s no way you could tell exact frame data (3 frame dp) or what is faster outside of obvious things like EX mallet/mallet being faster from a camera video.