Kit and Frosty can fight over Nina. I got Juri to keep me company. <3. The problem with Ex Gc is that if you have certain setups against slow reversals like that then it can be countered ever so easily. For example, Ryu’s mp DP can slaughter EX GC with the right setup. As long as you have a setup for a particular move You can effectively shut it down without worrying about the basics like Nj or X-ups.
Example, I have a setup for Juri that practically laughs at reversals like Nina’s, mainly due to the tools Juri all the while remaining in front of Nina.
If you neutral jump ex geyser it will go straight under you and you’ll eat a punish. It’s like - 10 on block as well and loses to lows. It’s on an angle where it’s not good as an anti - air like a dp and they can literally go under it if they shrink their hitbox with something like a sweep. It’s a terrible reversal.
Mental alertness is strike invulnerable from first frame, it’s not armoured. Willow is -3 on block making it very safe in a game where a lot of characters that used to have 3f normals don’t, it puts you into a -30 crumple state on counter hit, which it’s likely to get given how you use it. The way to counter it is a throw, well Jin has spinning flare kick which is airborne from 1f.
Jin also has a positive thrusting uppercut (this shit is +2 with 9f full body invulnerability) in Cross Cancel. It’s one of the absolute best defensive options in the game while blocking.
As for anti - airs, he can flat out crush all air normals with leaping side kick. Anti - airs were his one weakness in vanilla.
Jin is pretty much the best character in the game. He gets plenty of love from top players and tournament results as well, particularly in asia.
Whoa Frosty slow down. None of Jin’s specials are + on block, SFK is only accessible though SS which can’t cancel into something until the 8 frame (earliest) so yes you can technically throw Jin on wake-up anytime you wish.
MA can also just be launched since SW is the fastest move out of MA and besides…launcher crushes SW anyway.
Geyser doesn’t lose to lows necessarily. Also it just doesn’t have enough invincibility to cover the attack. There is a 1 frame gap before her invincibility runs out. So if people wanted they could just find a set up to hit her with meaty moves. Actually the best thing to do is use a hop move. Juri’s f+mk forces EX GC to whiff and so does Asuka’s F+HK. (Many more moves can do this btw)
You can throw Jin on wake up. To do spinning flare kick it requires you to do SS and moves execute 1 frame after frame 9 if you do a SS. So technically it’s airborne frame 10 at it’s earliest. So it’s not a great wake up option.
And I see there isn’t enough Juri competition for FSE (Other than darkphyre and Roknin). Time to revive the old team!
Btw Juri meaty cl.hp combo.
Cl.HP > MK Fuhajin store > LK senpusha (230 damage) not sure where to take it from there but it works midscreen. I’ll work on it to see if there are more options.
The problem with mental alertness to swaying willow is how slow it is. I believe it’s possible for characters to OS it with a light normal since, like with Law’s EX FFR, you can do a “meaty” light attack, recovery in time and do an invincible move to plow right through it (or even raw launch since swaying willow can be raw launched for free). Depending on the character you could also just do a certain multi-hitting move/chain to beat it clean (I think a well timed f.lp > f.lp from Hei just laughs at it, Asuka’s Heron Dance can deal with it quite well, etc.).
And how the heck is spinning flare kick a counter to the throw option? Spinning flare kick can only be done out of special step, and you need at least 9 frames to cancel into a move from special step. So being airborne on frame 1 means nothing here. If you meant leaping side kick, that doesn’t work either as it has 7 frame start-up, and you need at least 10 frames before you can cancel out of Mental Alertness, and including the 10 frame cancel time out of mental alertness it’s a total of 47 frames. Throws last for 26. So you have 21 frames to punish him with something.
He is completely free to throws on his wake-up, the ONLY option he has is to try and jump away (or backdash), in which case he risks getting hit into a full punish or having his jump chased down/punished by certain characters (and the backdash can be OS’d I’m sure).
I didn’t say his specials, I said his cross cancel, which is +2 with 1 - 9 full body invulnerability.
Swaying Willow is pretty damn safe even if it’s not positive on block.
Throw’s a good option against Jin but they work on everyone. Jin requires you to go for them because of all his invulnerable tools which are just part of his character. That was my point, Jin has no obvious weakness but a lot of strengths, he’s just all - round very good. If wakeup is his only problem in a game with recovery rolls, I can live with that.
Most launchers don’t come out until around the 13th or later frame. You’re not launching Swaying Willow on reaction with that. You might be able to launch it on a prediction, but if you’re wrong you’re eating a full bnb.
A launcher crushes SW even if SW started before a launcher. If someone whiffs a quick normal and the MA eats the whiff then they can just go right into a launcher without fear from anything from MA. Also according to the notes EX PS can’t be canceled until the 11frame.
For SW to come out from MA it takes I think 16 frames total. That’s about ex FFR startup. IF you have setups for something like this Jin’s wake-up game is shutdown even without throws. Throwing Jin really limits his options to 3 things, tech, jump or backdash. If he’s willing to spend the meter then he can use his super or CA.
Why are people still begging for such and such character to get nerfed? Stop with the complaining about this character is op and actually learn the matchup. If SFxT is ever updated and the characters people are bitching about get nerfed, other characters get buffed and we’ll be back to square one all over again with the same bs. They’re a lot of mid-tier characters in this game that are actually quite cheap, possibly should be higher on the tier list, but people are too lazy to explore. If the Daigo/Xian match didn’t teach you anything about tiers, I don’t know what will.
Because no one should be naive enough to think that game balance should be achieved through buffs alone. That’s not how it works unless you’re aiming for a rainbow edition. If you only do buffs, then some buffs may not be enough to catch characters up to the others, or other characters might get buffed to the power of being EVEN MORE ridiculous than the original problem. You still have to stay true to both the character’s archetype and the game’s engine. We can’t buff people until they’re shooting homing fireballs or some crap.
But what do you buff? Ryu, for example, has found a point where he’d be 100% acceptable with only very minor changes (actually, he’s acceptable now, but after having the changes settle, his cr. MK reach should be restored…>_>), but if we were to buff him to match top-tier material, we’d basically have to throw in a ton of extra stuff just to make him top-tier material. The same applies to everyone.
Also, remember that the current top-tiers weren’t top-tier until the previous Jab X Timeout top-tiers got nerfed. Sure, rebuffing is important, but one should be wary of what’s being buffed, so that we don’t strengthen that Jab X Timeout meta-game again.
Next thing you know, people will request nerfs for Balrog. There will always be top tier characters. Some potential top tier characters are flying under the radar because you don’t see many good players using them.