When you lose at 89 fights on Survival I think when you sit for that 5 minutes you question whether you’re more angry that you lost after getting that far, or that you’re more angry that you spent that much time playing one thing of survival.
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Yeah I couldn’t do survival much either. I basically tried to cheese hard with Cammy and wound up wanting to murder a nice white family. Like I got to like level 46 or 48 which is a Birdie being controlled by MenaRD if Mena was an ESPER.
That was also around the time Capcom had announced that colors would be purchasable in the shop. I staked my pride as a Cammy main and hoped that my love for the character would see me through.
After probably 10 tries I said “man you know what? 1.99 ain’t even that bad shiiiiiit”.
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Yeah, fuck Birdie in the 40’s. Not only do you have to face him twice, but the fucker counters nearly everything you do. I remember when I kept getting AA’d or command grabbed. The only way to do well is to hope he doesn’t get up quickly and try to cross him up. Mad annoying.
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I just had my sweep target combo trick where I just kept command dash hopping after the target combo and hoping they wouldn’t block the cross up. Then when you get a Mika or Laura that blocks the cross up, you know you got problems.
Survival? What is it?
A tale of souls…and crashes.
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how could you do that to a VLX? 
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Man DBFZ looks so fucking good visually but every character looking like Goku clone #345847 is such a turn off man.
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Certainly more than just that as far as what I can’t stand about that game. I remember saying that would be a problem, but now that’s like the least issue.
Yeah that shit is like 350 bucks on Walmart and people selling it for more on Ebay. Shit is like 15 fucking lbs to so he must have jumped off the top rope to blow that shit up. You basically have to hold 2 newborn babies just to use that stick.
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You ever watched an Android 16 match? Yeah, like that.
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Unless Yipes and Matrix are on the mic, Sonic is playing Go1, or HookGangGod is playing, I can’t watch DBFZ. Like, ever. Haven’t touched the game since Broly and Bardock were released. I was playing nothing but DBFZ for the first few months, but the game just began to get stale to me. Despite being a huge DBZ fanboy in general, the novelty of DBFZ wore off really fast for me. Much quicker than I expected and that’s disappointing.
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Look, in order to get good at this game, you have to accept that its ass.
Once you accept its made shitty on purpose, you can start really learning how to deal.
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There’s a whole essay to be written about the state of fighting games, but suffice it to say, yes, they’re ass.
The fact that tier lists even exist is proof enough that they are not balanced and should not be taken seriously yet as a competetive sport.
One day, a fighting game will make it as a sport, but it’s not going to be street fighter.
It will probably be Tekken or a Virtua FIghter style game.
But that’s decades into the future and most of us won’t even see it happen.
It’s a very delicate balance, SFV is extremely simple, and even that game has obvious gameplans which are simply better.
Can you cancel three mediums into a safe special? Congratulations, you’re top tier.
Can you keep applying pressure whiile nullifying every other option (except EX) on your opponent’s part? Congratulations, you’re top tier.
FIghters have long way to go, Street Fighter with all its exciting options won’t be the sport of the genre.
This has without a doubt, got to be one of the dumbest posts I’ve ever read.
You think the fact that TIER LISTS EXIST, is the reason FGs can never be taken seriously? Really now? My 5 year old nephew could tear that argument apart within 30 seconds.
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ZOE2 multiplayer should be in the FGC esports events.
Well, since your 5-year-old nephew probably has better things to do, how about you give it a go?
Ended my ranked run with Sakura tonight exactly at the same point I started it, with around 1700 lp.
It is a bit of improvement since I didn’t lose points like the other nights, but I am still mad at myself.
I am practising hit confirming c. mk into dp a lot… yet when I am in ranked, I rarely hit confirm it.
I also fail to hit confirm st hps that I wasn’t expect to land, leading me to leave a lot of damage on the table.
I know the areas I have to improve right now, but I don’t know how I can improve them other than playing more ranked sets till I build the muscle memory and the reactions needed to be a half decent Sakura player.
Alas, I hope the Falke maintenance ends earlier than expected so I can get an hour of ranked grind tomorrow.
Well let’s go for the obvious, then we can dig deeper later if I really need to bury your post further.
Your entire argument hinges on two things. Street Fighter being “too simple” to be taken seriously, and all FGs having “imbalance” ruins the prospect of being taken seriously as any kind of sport.
Imbalance
On the second note, there is not one sport in existence that is not inherently imbalanced in some shape or form. Every single one. Solo Sports, Team Sports, Physical Sports, Mental Sports. From personnel, training possibilities, location, budget and so on. If anything, Video Games are as close as you can get to something like chess to being “balanced” because the only actual imbalance that can be present, is a person’s own ability. Choosing a worse character isn’t imbalance, that’s a choice that the player themselves make and in of itself, is part of the game. If you end up in bad matchups, it’s because you personally chose a character that has such a matchup. The game did not force you to make that choice, nor did your opponent. It’s certainly possible for everyone to pick the same character, and if someone tries to take advantage of that possibility, that’s where Double Blind Selection comes in. At that point it becomes a dice roll to see if anyone gets any matchup advantage, and then at that point it comes down to the one factor of all games and sports, personal ability.
Other sports, nah, they don’t get more balanced. Do you think some unranked scrub could take on Roger Federer in a Best of 5 Set match at Wimbledon? It’s certainly not just about personal ability that forces that imbalance. Experience, sponsors, and even the location as Federer is one of the greatest Grass Court Tennis Players in all time, ESPECIALLY at Wimbledon. You come to take him on in a game, you’re on the backfoot from the very start and there’s nothing you can do to make up that imbalance. Team Sports. Do you really think that the New England Patriots are on the same tier of relevance as the Cleveland Browns? The Philadelphia Eagles on the same tier as the Detroit Lions? There’s many reasons why the Eagles and the Patriots went to the Super Bowl and the other two teams are the personification of NFL ineptitude. Or why the AFC in the NFL has had a grand total of four different QBs representing the conference in the Super Bowl since the year 2003.
Tiers of power exist in every possible sport. And for various reasons. “imbalanced characters” means nothing against that, because character choice is that, choice. No more different than the type of cleats you wear, the bat you use or the racket you run with. It’s the same with any other E-Sport. You can all choose the same weapons and the time to pick them in CS:GO. Choose to make the same decks in Hearthstone. But choice isn’t part of the imbalance, instead it’s part of the game itself.
Simplicity
As for Street Fighter being “too simple”, there are many simple sports that exist to this day that are taken seriously. What exactly is all that complicated about the 100-meter dash? Once you learn your proper form and optimize it, past that it’s all about training and personal ability. There’s no hidden secrets, or immensely nuanced tech that can be learned to make it far more deep. It just is, and yet it’s still one of the most respected sports out there that draws the biggest viewers at the Olympics even though it’s an immensely short event. If you want to go for the E-Sports route, look at Counter Strike: Global Offensive. It’s not a particularly difficult game on its own merits. The tactics of even the best professional teams are not hard to grasp for any viewer. But the voracity of competition, and the absolute skill of the best competitors always make it a joy to watch.
Hell even if we just stick within the realm of Fighting Games, the most respected SF out there, is still Super Turbo and it’s by far the simplest (or second simplest, to Hyper Fighting) FG to learn and play. You sure as fuck can tell why a character is top tier within a second, it’s an immensely imbalanced game and it’s also arguably the most punishing FG that exists. You make a mistake, you will die. Even moreso than a Vs. Series game, there’s no fall back characters to maybe get lucky with. You go straight to the next round the second you breathe incorrectly. And yet, it’s respected for ALL of the above reasons.
Why FGs and the FGC can't be taken seriously quite yet
There are legitimate reasons why Fighting Games struggle for “E-Sport Legitimacy”. Nothing you said have anything to do with it. I’ll even say though that the quality of game, has nothing to do with the current issues. Many E-Sport communities are of the same mind as the FGC. That older games in their lineage are strictly better, but they have to play the newer ones because that’s where the money is. As long as a game isn’t 100% garbage to the point that it’s tossed out within 1 month, players will put up with anything to get paid, or to “play what the pros play”. And because of the current Patch Culture, developers no longer feel as much pressure to get it right the first time around. They’ll just mess around with it post-release to placate people and push more money making endeavors out.
Fighting Games, ALL Fighting Games, have a high barrier of entry. It lowers the value of people wanting to watch it and eventually learn and play themselves. They are very punishing to those who are just learning, and soul-crushing to the casual. Part of that is still on developers struggling to deliver a proper FG learning experience to all comers, that’s both expansive and yet engaging. The community itself has issues of its own, with immaturity (though honestly not a huge deal), and more importantly racism and sexism. You would think that a community with such a broad range of people that are proficient we’d be past such issues, but sadly we are not. We have a lot of issues to sort out on the community side, in who represents us and how we choose to represent ourselves, before we even consider anything else.
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And I’ll be sure to compartmentalize all of that in a second, I didn’t realize how long the post would be.
EDIT: That was MUCH simpler to compartmentalize than in Vanilla. Took me like 10 seconds.
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I’ll reply to this tomorrow, going to bed.
But glancing through it, I didn’t mean a simple fighting game = bad. SFV points out that even an extremely simplified FG can be imbalanced. So I didn’t mean to make a point there.
The rest of your argument about imbalance seems to hinge upon a person’s ability as the deciding factor, which is what a sport should be. However, you don’t pick Ed in a tourney against Guile if you have a decent Akuma or Cammy. No other sport nullifies 3 years of experience with a character like FGs with balance patches and character additions. Roger Federer wouldn’t bring a tree branch instead of a racket. We’re talking about tools to get the job done, obvious objective advantages, and risk/reward scenarios, not personal ability.
That being said, my main point was to emphasise fighting games are not a level playing field where every character pick can bring you great results through hard work. And SF, with its varied archetypes will not be the fighting game that will be closest to personal ability = chances of success.
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