My friend said SFV is a guessing game.
Just wondering what fighting games doesn’t have guessing involved. And what can be done by developers to make it 100% skill based and no guessing?
My 09er friend chimed in to say that USF4 is 100% skill based and no guessing involved. Is this true?
Does option select remove the element of guessing?
This is stupid 09er drivel. He would get bashed to high hell saying stuff like that in 09 thru 15, but because it’s past 016 he can get away with it. Just like how nothing is wrong with 3S anymore and all of that shit.
As someone that loves SF4, seeing that game has no guessing is utter horseshit.
People like to say SFV takes no skill and it’s just an asinine statement.
As someone who didn’t play sf4 in depth, just wondering if there are any elements of guessing involved in the game?
I heard that there’s vortex in earlier versions of sf4 prior to usf4. So is guessing completely removed in usf4?
Does option select really remove the element of guessing?
And is it possible to really eliminate the element of guessing in a fighting game.
My only answer to remove guessing is to reduce input lag, which sfv will be doing next Tuesdays. Actually I don’t think it will remove guessing. More like reduce guessing.
The 09er said there is no point in practicing sfv because you will get randomed out anyway. Even Tokido has to guess. How can I counter this obvious stupid statement.
I’m Triggered but my street fighter skills are the worst in my entire group of friends and I can’t think of anything to counter. Lol.
All fighting games are based on a rock/paper/scissors game that you as a player dictate the outcome of heavily.
There are two distinctions, there’s a scenario in which you punish or force an error and capitalise on it. Whiff punishes, anti-airs, walking into a poke.
And a scenario in which you force one of X options, and make them guess incorrectly. Tick throw, shimmy, reversal.
Pretty sure every fighting game works on that basis. It’s impossible not to if you don’t want defensive options to be overbearing.
Delayed wakeup helped lessen the effectiveness of vortex, but people were still finding a way to counter the timing. Overall, it wasn’t nearly as bad in Ultra as it was in Arcade Edition. I don’t think it’s possible to eliminate guessing in a fighting game. In terms of the random factor…the tournament placers are fairly consistent. That’s not to say there’s no random factor. I just don’t think you can define the whole game in that way.
It honestly sounds like your friend just doesn’t like SFV, which is fine.
Main difference I find is that yeah you can guess in SF5 like any other game, but most of the time its safe and may set you into another mix up.
It’s not the guessing that’s different, it’s the guessing that doesn’t take any risk.
In other words guessing in other games might lose you a round. Guessing in SF5 you’re prolly fine and hammed some set up out of it.
I neutral jumped a Urien EX shoulder this morning ( hard read) then got grabbed as I came down. It’s Horse shit like that gets my goat. I did the right thing and it still didn’t work.
Anyone who says SF4 has no guessing was never put in an Ibuki or Akuma blender.
Yeah it was stick snappingly bad. I don’t deny that. Felt like though at least everyone had an Ultra and a focus attack. Also it was actually quite difficult to become a vortex Akuma or ibuki. It wasn’t comon. That doesn’t make it better, just that PS4 Joe wasnt doing side switching resets on day 3.
SF5 some dudes have got a two bit Trigger and a V skill that’s useful in 3 matches.
I feel like the guts scaling is a lot worse in 5 also. Seems like you always “just” didn’t kill them.
I still think SF5 and SF4 mixed together is an epic game.
Everyone did NOT have a Focus Attack. Focus Attack was blatantly favoring Command Characters. It was just a good thing that it was not the focus of the game (no pun intended). As for Ultras some characters sure as hell got the short end of the stick. Again though, what mattered more were the characters individual toolkit. There were only a couple of cases where an Ultra really was a meta definer.
A lot of the meta in SFV is based around what would be considered hard reads (or something that’d at least require conditioning) in SFIV. That’s where the guess heavy part comes from. You don’t really have tools to induce risks, and you’re supposed to take those “risks” anyway because they’re annoyingly rewarding and hard to stop.
That being said, all fighters have an element of guessing. SFIV was no different. Hell, the up-close game of SFIV still makes me want to punch things.
Funny how we all see sf4 differently. I’m inclined to think the way I see/saw it was the real way the game played:
Yeah it was guess based, all fighters are, and if you were good the guesses were safe and in your favor… or else you didn’t do them… no one is making bad guesses unless they are a baddie.
In sf4 though from what I remember playing against, you had to set up your guesses, in other words, your mixups. You didn’t just get to ex in from fullscreen or teleport easily etc etc. you had like yun ex lunge, but the game was mostly footsies till someone got knocked down, then it turned anime guessing game where the attacker could OS most of your defenses and then put you in the same shitty situation over and over again. Me personally, I didn’t mind the vortex shitty situation one after another, it was the opponents ability to OS down your defenses that really pissed me off.
And now, in sf5, it’s basically the same thing except you can fuzzy OS peoples offenses now, and also now, the “guesses/mixups” instead of being strong mixups that are herd to setup, are weaker mixups that are easier to setup.
You block a necalli jab or cr.mp… now you have a “mixup” of command grab/frame trap/stagger pressure/ low confirm. Just a bunch of relatively safe options, but none that by themselves are all that powerful, but they can be stacked one on top of another, giving the illusion of strong offense simply because some offensive sequences can last many blocked moves if the defender chooses to use a passive defense and the attacker chooses to use an aggressive stagger offense.
What’s better? Idk. Sf5 is more frustrating for me to play personally, but it has its fun parts. I wouldn’t ever take this game seriously though. But sf4 was a game that id sink my teeth into, though of course it was far far from perfect having some super shitty matchups and some super shitty strategies, and some characters that could knock you done once and never allow you to “play” again.
Yeah SF5 definitely has less “I outsmarted you there” moments.
I remember the feeling of Kara uppercutting a back dash. Its like - I owned you in that moment.
Depends. If not for offense you could at least use Focus Attack defensively and for meter building. Absorbing a fireball or single hit here and there as Chun for example gave her early access to her Ultra which in turn would make the opponent stop using fireballs altogether. Of course it’s no Evil Ryu FADC Ultra payoff but it was still a strong tool to have. Considering most charge characters actually were more on the defensive side in that game (unlike ‘I can do everything’ SFV Guile) it wasn’t as bad as it sounds, even if most of them didn’t have FADC Ultra combos.
Not everyone had FADC but focus was essentially a parry and everyone could crumple a slow move on a read. I wouldn’t say they were all built equal, but even shit characters had good focus. Like Gouken etc.
Hi Edmund, it’s me Vintagesoul.
IMO there are lots of SG players who don’t like SFV and will say things like “it’s random” or “there’s no variety in playstyles” or whatever. Lots of these players were really strong in SF4 and never made the transition to being strong in SF5.
Truth be told I think it’s sad and it’s one of the reasons that SG is worse now than a lot of other countries that we used to beat in SF4.
I also think that alot of those “reasons” are just empty rationalizations. The real reason why Singaporeans don’t seem to like SFV as much as SF4 is simply because Singaporeans don’t like change. Even SF4 took awhile to truly catch on - lots of SG players preferred to stick to KOF and only really jumped onto SF4 because it was the only game left in town.
Btw, if anyone who used to play SF4 in Bugis tells you that they don’t play SF5 because of input lag, you can laugh in their face because SF4 cabs in bugis, being pirated Chinese cabs, were 2-3 frames laggier than the Taito Type X2.
Focus wasn’t spread evenly, but everyone could make good use of it in one way or another.
I’m over here playing sf5 tryin to get my throw game on and people “tech” by mixing up between walking backwards or mashing jab.
Great game Capcom!
Characters with command grabs?
I think he means that charge characters were really disadvantaged when using FA’s because dash cancels would break charge.
Seriously though, I can’t imagine that anyone can look at Fei Long’s FA and say with a straight face that the FA system was fair to most of the cast.
