I’ve been playing more G then Sagat lately and I’m loving it.
Not even. Just offense that closer matches the strength of his long range (while shaving some frames of start up off certain buttons). Sagat has traditionally been a slower walk character outside of ST and has proven to be high tier in most of those games still. Menat has average walk speed at best but good for other reasons etc.
Sad part about VT1 is that even with 3 shots it’d probably still be pretty bad if that was the only change. Sagat’s v gauge building abilities are worse than Falke’s and even when he gets the trigger, the actual shot isn’t even plus on block at closer ranges so it doesn’t add to his offense at all. Which means outside of his buttons getting plus frames or frame shavings through the roof it’d still be a trigger that forces him to play with mostly the same honesty even at 3 shots.
Make VT1 3 shots with chip kill!
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Let Sagat use his pet tiger as a special move
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Guile gets a 7 frame sweep and good cr. Mk. Sakura gets a 10 frame sweep and a cr. Mk that constantly whiffs. Shit ain’t right.
I’m sure Sagat can beat Guile from high level to online but good lord is it a fucking hassle of a fight. I have to be patient when fighting Super gold to damn Holographic Diamond. Then again I only play Sagat for fun but the patience I have to have man…at least I feel ALIL bit more confident in whiff punishing thanks to Capcom upgrading their server to windows 10
I do agree with Valle’s assessment to Sagat changes though, especially the universal juggle state of his CC stHK IIRC that shit acts real goofy depending on height
His V skill blows, it’s too slow. Basically against characters that you need the extra damage are also characters you don’t get 2 seconds to breath. Like Rashid.
His cr.mk needs to be faster also. If they aren’t Gona give him Oki off the dp then make it fly them further.
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I kinda disagree with this statement while also agreeing with it. Sagats “offense” isn’t that much worse than many other characters. That sounds ridiculous because it is. His “offense” is much worse than say rashid or Cammy.
But why? Is it because of upclose options… kinda, but not really.
The real reason why is because he simply doesn’t get in the way those characters like Cammy rashid and bison get in.
To me THATS the big deal. Like seriously, oldschool zoner offense wasn’t particularly good. OG gat wasn’t walldiving you like vega, and he wasn’t corner rushing you like balrog… BUT, he atleast had his tick throw game like everyone else.
That’s the big deal. Throws. In sf5 they are bad, even for the upclose monsters. The difference really becomes who sees that throw range more often. Cammy and rashid are going to see it 5-10 times a round. Sagat and the other zoners might see it 3 times a round at most. This means that their “offense” is much worse than the upclose characters because they simply don’t have the numbers in there favor. But even the upclose characters have shit offense in this game unless your like diamond rank or above and can 1 hit confirm your lows with around 80% consistency.
Basically make throws great again and you will see the zoners become much better. The upclose characters won’t get that much more buffed than they were, but the zoners will have a stark improvement to their offense.
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Thats why I think he’s unbalanced because if you make v skill better, he fucks grapplers even harder. So he starts tilting match ups.
I agree with throws though.
I mean easiest thing to do is just give him dash up pressure off DP, but then he just becomes everyone else.
I came to the realisation the other day why people say “why pick this character”. It’s because they made the game paint by numbers. So why would you make it difficult for yourself for less reward? An example of this is SF4 Akuma, he’s good, damn good, but any regular Joe can’t just pick him up and wreck folk. He needs skill…so people pick Ryu.
In SF5 there is not one reason not to play Akuma if you play shoto. You are deliberately gimping yourself.
The knock on effect of making the game simple, is that the good characters are also simple to play.
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this is why some characters need throw loops
You got characters that can just do a retarded long sequences you have to hold in the corner, same characters that are hard to escape the corner against. Look at rashid, character barely has to hold any corner pressure and he’s out for free
You got yolo v trig activations in a complete momentum swing with almost no counterplay
But throw loops were the problem? Some characters need them, you should hold some throw loops if you end up getting cornered by ryu or sagat
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Rashid is fucked.
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I think I like ken better than akuma against grapplers at least
Personally I don’t think throw loops are needed. I think they just create another imbalance and lazy way for capcom to differentiate characters via dart board attributes, plus when they were in the game they really distracted from the game itself. It was like hey we tryin to play streetfighter to, hey… throw loops… like you could see weaker players getting damage they wouldn’t get normally…
Imo a better way to buff throws is keep them as they are and buff their damage as well as make teching them much harder. You really shouldn’t be able to BOTH late tech and walk backwards as a way to get out of tick throws. Throws should scare people and getting hit by one should fucking hurt. I personally want them doing a minimum of 150 for forward throws and 170 for back throws, with neither really having an option for crazy oki afterwards, but both giving the offensive person a free dash into a +0 and outside of throw and jab range situation… so basically a reset but with some spacial pressure, kinda like Akumas forward throw.
I don’t understand why a rushdown character would want to grab the opponent if the only reward would be an useless reset, just give that option to zoning characters if they want.
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It’s interesting to see that V have ditched some oldschool concepts of fighting games design in order to make it more accessible, but I am not really sure that made it a better a game. Sometimes I feel they went to far homogenizing the cast. You can clearly see it from the frame data to hit/hurtboxes.
If you think about, even the concept of V-system revolves around streamline the game. The PR excuse was to further differentiate the characters (as if it made sense to create an UNIVERSAL mechanic for that reason), but what they actually intended was to give every char a special move and an install/another special using two buttons. And they didn’t even put effort in designing many of them.
On the other hand, you have a game like Xrd, where the developers simplified their game just a little bit and kept most of the core concepts of old school GG design (high skill ceiling, fun before balance, crazy character diversity), but, well, the game is still tough to get into for most players.
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SFV is actually hard for beginners to get into, everything requires full commitment and you need to know your frame data more than in any other fighting game
What? This makes no sense. Rushdown is offense and mixups. Grabs are one part of the mixup. If a grab does 150 damage and is hard to tech… 2 grabs are 300 damage… 3 grabs are half life. It’s like saying I don’t know why grapplers would want a command grab. The entire up close Game Center’s around the opponent being afraid of 1 of 2 things:
Grabs or re offense IE dashing back in of some sort. Dashing back in is atleast 18 frames of startup and that’s for the fastest characters with 15 frame dashes and 3 frame normals. The average character is going to have a 17 frame dash and a 4 frame normal so that’s 21 frames. So atleast 21 frames or so, or you have to stagger and give away your frame advantage… it’s all bad. Or… you could just use a frame advantaged throw/strike mixup which is WAY safer…
Sagat should play like that dude from uniel but with his tiger
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