I like how Kage is like Iori style edge. Just wilin out edge.
The only way Sakura can keep Falke grounded is by using her walk speed to go under her air game. Her anti air game otherwise is garbage vs Falke. She can kinda do what she wants to Sakura from the air unless she uses her walk speed or dashes under. She is going to lose more often than not trying to actively challenge with AA.
On the other hand Kage has a reactive AA vs every type of jump Falke does that’s better than any other shoto. Her only shot is out reacting him on the jump or hoping he’s somehow out of range.
His V Skill easily makes up for any stubby shoto issues (he’s one of the few characters that can stop Bison from pressing buttons). His mid range stuff can all lead to strong corner carry with the right confirm/meter spent and once you get them there you can do what you want with them.
His fireball game isn’t great, but relatively to his gameplan it’s not that big of a deal unless he’s fighting Sagat who you’re not going to see much of or Guile who you can use VT1 vs. Everyone else he has enough aerial options to have a doable gameplan of moving in on them.
Kage v skill has a big flaw. You can neutral jump or low punish its startup/active frames. Atm no one times the low becuase of matchup inexperience. You’ll notice sako doesnt use it much in neutral because you can get fucked up if the player gets a read, and if your positioning is off (which bad kage players do all the time) then it’s worse. Best to be used pre-preemptively. I certainly dont think it makes up for his poor neutral game.
Sure, like any move it has flaws, but the upsides are good enough and as long as you make sure it makes contact even on block it’s at a spacing where you can fish for it again or go for another poke.
Like in the Falke vs Kage matchup, I have to jump because he’s going to win the ground game otherwise. His V Skill fishing is kinda free vs Falke once he gets in a certain range and Falke has no lows that are scary enough to stop him from fishing. Which means he can stay at the minus 3/10 range of her heavies until he walks or pokes his way in. Once he walks inside of that range she’s halfway done.
I wouldn’t say it’s ever free especially if you’re expecting it. Assuming they’re from a good range where you cant sweep or get falke’s double hitting projectile, if the kage player is charging he’s likely waiting for you to press a button in order to armour through your normals/special, If you know how long the v skill goes on for then you can time a neutral jump, even if the player releases it early after seeing your jump you’ll likely be able to punish him before landing. From further ranges (where pushback is maxed) you could even go for a backdash.
How i see it the v skill looks to be designed to make up for his lack of fireball. But it’s not a flawless neutral winning move, but has other important usages such as beating fireballs/poke.
I would say once he’s within a range he’s kinda free to fish with it. Her charged shot is slow start up (and got even slower start up as a berf in S4) so that’s not really something you’re going to be doing much vs Kage. Kage already has great long ass jump ins that threaten any of Falke’s standing buttons greatly. You try to throw one bad s.MK, s.HP or f+HP and he jumps you’re likely taking a full combo or having to hold a frame trap/take a throw. Which will make Falke very cautious to hit buttons which gives more room to fish with Kage V Skill while preparing to walk or jump in.
Normally this isn’t a problem vs other shotos like Ryu and Akuma because she can win on the ground vs them also (Akuma more so than Ryu, but generally beats both). With Kage you can’t really take to the air as your first way to normally beat shotos and then you can’t really play the ground either because he has options there too.
Once close enough then Kage’s other buttons open up while still threatening regular/charged V Skill if necessary. If the Kage player is mixing up the V Skills well you’re going to have a hard time sitting there hoping he does the charged one which is even safer minus if blocked. Like what you’re saying you may get once in a while in a good round or so, but not consistently. Especially when you’re worrying about one of his long ass jump buttons or feint into dive messing with your ground game.
Obviously you wouldnt normally low dash at kage’s v skill range but here they’re reacting to something, once they see you charging that v skill pre-emptively they’ll use it. I mean they could just crouch to bait a v skill. And if you try to be smart and release early, suddenly you’re -6 and eating a fat punish.
You dont always have to punish the v skill (vt1 shot is free punish btw), a kage player isnt likely to v skill when you have a shot powered up. St mk still only has 16 frames recovery, so it’s pretty safe. Kage’s jump in frames is pretty much the same as any shoto, almost identical to ryu. And the kage player has to be pre-emptively jumping in the first place which means he’ll be eating a punish or two. How i see it kage’s v skill isnt enough to win the neutral game from outside the range of falke’s fast recovering normals. You need something spammable like rashid’s cr hp mentioned earlier. There’s plenty of ways for falke or any character just to blow it up. Neutral jump, backdash from near max range and whiff punish, if you practice it you may even learn to time to cc sweep it whilst it’s traveling towards you (but obv very risky). And a full punish amounts to a huge chunk of health. Not many are gonna risk spamming that. Also what are the rewards for blocking it for kage? it’s -2.
That’s the thing about the V Skill. It’s pushback is designed like Ibuki so the minus 6 is irrelevant.
Minus 6 with that pushback is effectively Kage’s turn unless they have EX legs or super. Falke definitely don’t got a punish from that range other than super. Even Bison has no punish for that. His only 6 frame move whiffs at that spacing and everything else will generally whiff other than shit that will make Bison lose his turn or get counter poked any way.
That’s also the problem as not punishing it means you’re giving him free turns. Getting s.MK jumped on is a problem even at only 16 frames recovery since Falke isn’t going to have an anti air fast enough to still do anything other than block or maybe get a trade if she’s lucky. Getting Falke to neutral jump or backdash is exactly what Kage wants so that isn’t great for her either. Once he gets in range to fish with V Skill and s.HK she’s got problems and those problems can lead to her getting cornered pretty fast with his walk speed. Which she can only challenge with stuff that’s minus on block or prone to getting v skilled or jumped on.
There’s only a very specific spot where shot or s.MK shot is going to be effective and it’s a range that Kage can blow up.
Only from near/max range-6 does it leave him far enough outside of bison’s cr mp. But in this case it was definitely bison’s turn as his st hp would reach, and possibly even st mk.
What i’m saying is v skill cant be spammed to control the neutral like you can with other great normals like birdie’s cr lp or rashid cr hp,
because the risk reward isnt to his favor. And if it’s as simple as kage standing within ranges where it’s most useful to armor through an active opponent, then the opponent can position themselves so they come closer or even jump at him (your not even eating 140 dmg from that dp if he does it early). Hell, if the kage is playing this kind of game where they look to spam v skill outside the range of st mk then a few fw hp’s/ st hk wont hurt.
Im just saying if you played more fighters competitively youd have more to work with and less complaints.
You can stay not playing ranked all you want just let me get there the way I get there. And next time you come to the UK lmk so I can win all the sets with Ibuki and Falke and probably Kage free
I was doing pretty good before the extra stuff I learned. We played mad early during Sagats launch IIRC. You dont got a Sagat that can hang with me now.
Its at a point now where hed need some real hot shit.
