You need really good reactions in order to react to Gat’s high shots or Guile’s booms with Juri’s v skill and you have to charge it in the first place. Ex Ryo is ten times better against them, you get some good damage and oki on hit due to the juggle dp, it doesn’t side switch and it isn’t -18 ob
I don’t see much of a problem either. Remember I’m the one who only wanted a few small buffs. The anti fireball stuff is more troublesome for Ryu than Sagat.
Fireball game in sf4 was way different. Much more push back on block. Better hitboxes. Better normals to back them up. No CC to eat them on start up for big damage. Its best not to compare the two games straight away in regard to mechanics
With Sagat the issue is getting the charge. I think it works really well if that happens. Idk about juri v guile.
Why not?
People come the whole time up with “but in the past it was different!”
I honestly don’t see a problem, if I could react to better version of the move with better versions of a counter(that still costed meter), I don’t see why reacting with a worse version of a move to a worse version of what it’s supposed to counter (and still costs meter), isn’t comparable.
Granted I understand that the Neutral in SF should just be a starring contest between two Shotos with occasionaly Plasma thrown to one another.
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You could DP A Fei Long Chicken Wing and Rose EX Spiral was punishable on block.
You need to be the son of the flash and quicksilver ( yes both men) to think you could possible punish an EX move on reaction in this game - Cody Zonk, Urien Tackle, Balrog Straight… literally Tokido can’t do it, because they are in your face in about a tenth of a second.
Also did I mention all of those are safe or plus on block…
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Was slow, could be thrown and was safe, if spaced corretly.
Seriously Rose was 90% spacing for her pressure, that includes her drills.
All the options presented here cost meter and are supposed to counter Plasma.
Unless I missed the memo and the Normal Versions go trough Plasma now as well.
The other options presented by Mike.
Are all unsafe, even for the meter cost or have to be charged or are slow.
The fact that instead of respecting the counter and trying to bait it out, you guys still insists of forcing your gameplan in, instead of adapting to the opponent whos ready to burn his Bar and get in, the next time he sees something shinning blue, is stupid.
“Oh hey he got a bar and I already eat 2 Ex Moves for Plasma, guess I’m throwing it again, he won’t counter me a third time, he got to respect me now!”
I mean you could also try to space them out, but I guess, this isn’t a viable option, since that would mean you have to hold your Plasma for a moment.
And since this is SF, it’s very likely you won’t.
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The big difference in 4 to 5 is if I bait that move out , I’m literally giving my opponent the momentum …and I can’t do anything about it. I just have to take whatever bar they’ve got.
So Example 1 - Fei Long is sitting mid/full screen - I know he’s looking for a shot so I fake one - he does the EX wing, but I read that situation and I uppercut the Chicken Wing - This is a deep game - I knew that he knew.
Example 2 - Its SF5 , fuck it do an EX move I’m plus on block and you can’t stop it anyway. This is a shallow game.
Example 3 - It’s SF5 again - I read that Urien or Balrog are gona dash straight me with the EX move cause it’s SF5 time - I neutral jump at the moment he throws it out … shit, he’s recovered before I even fucking came back down and now I’m in a 50/50
The only move mentioned here that’s like an old SF4 move is Laura’s EX elbow because although quick with armour - it’s punishable on block. Fuck Akuma doesn’t even need meter to make demon shit safe!!
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Because fireballs are functionally different in sfv. Character toolsets are too dramatically different to just say well x move was in sf4. It makes the neutral interactions play out in a completely different way. It’s a lot deeper than what you’re making it out to be and i think you’re showing a lack of understanding.
You’re coming across as the kind of player who calls it spamming or thinks Guile vs Sagat matches in sf4 were boring tbh.
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I think zoners get a hard time because Guile and Menat are quite busted. Guiles sobat kick is retarded along with his walk speed, so the plus 2 on block boom just rubs salt in the wounds.
When you see Ryu vs Ryu or Sagat vs Ryu or Sakura vs Ryu etc etc, the game actually looks really good to my eye’s. More pure, like you got outplayed if you lost.
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Dude… none of those are anti projectile/projectile invincible. Closest is uriens armored ex tackle which requires v skill. And what is said about those moves can also be said about certain moves in sf4. Like rogs dash L straight which was only -2 on block. But atleast you could crumple it (though that almost never happened versus a good rog)
This kind of debate is old af, no need to bring that again. Some prefer SF where chucking plasma is the real deal, others don’t, but all of them are SF.
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Yeah but a lot of characters have a move that costs zero dollars. Rashid V skill, Bison v skill , Nash v skill. Push two buttons on reaction… It’s not even a motion.
Even zangief and Abigail have multiple fireball obsorbs, then you’ve got low profile slides.
I think it shows you how good zoning has to be that Guile and Menat are busted.
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Guile and Menat are busted not so much because of fireballs, but their other great tools. Guile has an insanely good flash kick, AA normals, plus oB safe shit like his bazooka knee, good CC conversions, great VTrigger, and a fast walk speed. Menat… well i’m not a Menat specialist but her normals are better than Dhalsim’s plus her crystal ball shenanigans keep you away and she’s got her VT combo and mixups.
there’s too many ways around fireballs in this game. everyone has a projectile inv special move or parry/absorb/vskill/vtrigger thing that makes it so you don’t always have to jump over fireballs. even if you have to jump in there’s the fact that AA specials mostly suck so you use jab AA, air-to-air, or another normal. even though they lowered the lag a bit, there’s still too much where you can’t rely on AA specials unless they have 3 frame start up. throw in the fact that there’s shitty hurt/hit boxes and now the situation is a little worse.
fireballs are not really a problem in SFV.
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I think the projectile vs anti projectile interactions work ok in this game for everyone except ryu and ken. Functionally i think Ken works as a character. His problem is top tier.
In my opinion they should buff ryu and kens fireballs. Give Ryu the Sagat/S1 lp fb data on all his fireballs. 31f recovery plus faster HP fireball. Give Ken Ryus current fb data.
Or they can keep them as close range characters and buff their up close tools up to current rushdown standards. Plus 3 on block buttons and such.
Summary
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Seeing the costumes for Jin, CapCom, and June just makes me want a Capcom All-Stars even more. I’m glad Capcom is showing that they haven’t forgotten about these characters, but I want them to appear in an actual game. A game utilizing Capcom’s characters in an MVC like system would be the dream. I just don’t see it ever happening.
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Despite being nerfed since S1, Ryu still hits like a truck. Ken also + corner carry combos to finish the job. It’s pretty clear how Capcom don’t want people to play Galaga again like SF2, if there’s a fireball will be even a countermove to it. Everyone hate Guile, but at the same time everyone want good buttons,short recovery on fireballs and being able to switch from defense to offense with ease. Capcom need to balance zoning characters definitely, but never-ending zoning battles all over again ain’t gonna happen.
That feel when you legit react and punish Balrog’s straight or grab Urien out his EX Tackle make you want to get naked and play SF4 again, the best Street Fighter ever HNGGGGG
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It’s crazy that Guile appears to be the cure for most SFV problems, yet nobody here plays him.
Basically whine for the good stuff, and hate it on its not on their character. Fuck that.
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