It’s just a matter of a game can be designed around them or not designed around them and work out. It isn’t any game absolutely needs them and even if the game does need them for specific parts of a matchup to work the way they do, it’s not an absolute for workable neutral of any game.
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I mean, Cammy had a 3f st.hp in CvS2 and thats ok.
And it’s a old game, so it’s better than SFV by default.
Did I mention that it was +10? On block!
Yeah I want that back, fuck SFV st.hp, that ain’t the real shit.
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Drunk and also lag, otherwise I would show you the true meaning of being bad at fighting games.
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Yeah I can hop on for a few. I only have until 7 but that should be enough for a few lumps.
Hopping on now.
It was my bad. I meant cr mp. St mp is a combo starter and has specific purpose.
Cr mp has worse range than any medium normal ryu has and due to the low hitstun cant be confirmed into anything but m dp. It needs to be buffered into h dp, the same applies to cr mk. St lk is safe on block but it’s -2 so it ends your turn.
The character gets rewarded well for the right reads but the issue is the hit box range to punish a lot of whiffed normals is bad (other than st lk).
To me Sakura just doesnt function as well as ryu, with ryu you can incorporate fireball play into your game and have it work as a poke which you cant with sakura in addition you have a good mid range poke (st mk) and decent sweep, you dont have any of it with sakura (sweep is as bad as cr mk). She’s like a one trick pony. Fish for st lk, reset to neutral, jump on the opponent and try and 50-50 them whenever you get a hit with a tatsu. But these opportunities are always difficult to create. Compare that to akuma or ken. Far better shotos. I mean there’s no contest.
Might be on but already gonna play KingCrimson first then watch football so maybe if time but maybe not.
Nobodys asking for epic buttons, just functional ones.
Better buttons = more interesting interactions.
For me it’s mostly speed + length , being plus or minus isn’t as important in the mid range.
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I’d rather play Sakura over Ryu just because faster walk speed, has a plus 3 on block button even if it’s literally only frame trap range and her on hit situations after a heavy hit corner carry better and set up better no tech situations.
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It’s pretty simple. Ryu has better zoning than sakura. Sakura has better upclose game than ryu.
Now the big difference here is who’s weakness is better? Is sakuras zoning worse than ryus up close game… or vice versa.
To me, sakura can zone semi effectively with her walkspeed and crappy fireball.
Plus she’s got a very good upclose offense.
Ryu can be offensive, but he lacks mixups beyond the standard and doesn’t even have a great +3 on block normal. Then there’s the v triggers. Both of sakuras feel better than ryus tbh.
Sak just feels better once you realize you have to play a semi inactive neutral, it feels good knowing with her that one shimmy while I’m in vt2 means up to half life damage against my opponent, or of my opponent isn’t watching their ankles, same thing. Plus she has great stagger pressure and better pressure after a throw, plus she has dfhk which moves forward and is plus on block.
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Cr mp is plus 5 in hit, that’s a brain dead link into st.lk xx dp. Are we talking about the same thing?
It also has 4 active frames which is a holy grail in SF5.
Sweep I agree with, it’s terrible.
I’ll agree that Ryu has the better mid range control, but for conversion I think Sakura is better. So while her normals may be bad, they are quite good at turning the momentum back.
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If you wanna chuck plasma ( and have half the cast hard counter that) pick ryu. If you wanna play sf5 and get in peoples faces with effective tools for getting in peoples faces, pick sakura.
Ryu is a good pick against people without braindead anti fireball options, though.
My short experience with Sak is much like Sagat, I have quite a few tools, but most of them are a dead end. In fact I think both characters share similar problems.
The start up and benifit of hitting a tatsu or TK is very small. Long start up move that’s negative on block. Long but slow normals and no Oki from a lot of enders ( see how both characters share similar weakness).
I like to think of it like this - if putting your opponent into plus 2 close up is regarded as good, then the opposite must also be true. Any move that puts you at -2 (or worse) in the opponent’s face, has to be bad.
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I’d like to see these changes to Sak’s VT’s:
VT1-Change the command for her VT fireball to QCF-HP+HK. Now she can still use her regular fireballs, but give her the ability to cancel her regular fireballs into a VT fireball and vice versa. It’ll work like Chun-li’s pre release VT1. You can change the speed of the VT fireballs by pressing a different punch button during startup.
VT2- Change the VT tatsu and DP to QCB/DP-HP+HK, so that she can use her regular tatsu and DP independently of the VT versions.
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I agree Sakura’s has stronger up close up pressure but it still isnt that powerful. Upclose pressure is good if you have a hard knockdown where you can use dwf hk (very slow startup). But she doesnt have a tick throw. Cr lp doesnt frame trap 3 framers with medium buttons. The walk back and forward cr mk into tatsu is good but outside of the opponents face you have to walk forward to throw. Also l and h tatsu ends in -2 ob. That’s dangerous against gtrapplers.
However you do get more juggles from any combo you pull off.
The semi zoning game comes from duping people into thinking you’re charging the fireball. Since you can release the charge at anytime you can punish if the opponent’s jump in attempt. Or you can put players on guard by mixing up between tenko (air hadoken) and normal hadoken. Beyond that her fireball game zoning ability is awful.
V triggers are definitely better than ryu’s for both. Vt2 st lk into tatsu, v skill into dp does 300 damage. However you still have to work to open the opponent up. Because it’s -10 on block you might be the one losing 300 health. That’s massive risk for a v trigger!
She definitely shouldn’t lose regular tatsu in trigger. That gimps her for sure. It should just be HP+HK for trigger tatsu.
For me the difference is:
On block -2, am i in throw range? My hk tatsu, it’s stopping my opponent from throwing lots of plasma right? So I’m still getting a benefit even on block if my opponent doesn’t punish me with a -2 mixup, or AA me out of my tatsu. But it’s not like I’m throwing them out all day.
And last but not least, I’m dictating when I get the -2. I’m only going to do it in situations where I think the -2 is worth the risk or I have a read on my opponents -2 patterns.
It’s not like just announcing there will be a -2 situation coming up, which happens to be point blank. I’m fine with any -2 for me that leaves me outside throw range. In the case of of a fireball beater I’m fine with -2 in throw range because normally on block, for other characters I’d be getting punished, not put in s kinda shitty mixup situation, that I can fuzzy walk out of -2 ex FP out of if I’m feeling frisky, like the opponent stun is higher…
I mean cr mp into h dp not into lk.
Oh but when i was saying ryu needed some plus frames a year+ ago you told me it was too much.
I see how it is
Ryu has good plasma dickweed. Same as sagat. He gets no great plus frames with decent jumpins, great dash and great AA. Same as sagat doesn’t get great jumpins with great plasma.
Sakura does not have great plasma, but it’s serviceable, hence the better plus frames.
Sorry for calling you dickweed… but it feels appropriate 