I know that’s a “Shut the fuck up, we don’t know anything this early” comment. And maybe I should. But there’s no doubt he is the least equipped in the entire cast to deal with up close and personal characters. Now in fairness, he does have good tools to combat sloppiness by making it hurt from pretty much any normal and EX Meter (If you’re at LVL3 Pres you shouldn’t be on the back end to begin with). But again, that’s sloppiness, not actually countering what any of them do.
The only mauling character I imagine he doesn’t have as bad a matchup against is Blanka and only due to the seeming fact (seeming, as I can’t test it without buying Blanka and I don’t want to, and I don’t face enough to confirm it) that his Smashes seem to punish Blanka Ball which would mean Blanka would get taken to the pain train for ever using it which severely gimps some of his get in. G can also deal with Rainbow Balls pretty easily as well. Blanka will still murder G once he gets in, but it’s a lot harder for him to do so safely against him compared to the rest of the maulers (again, assuming his Smashes do indeed punish Blanka Balls like they seemed to do when Nemo was facing off against Blanka). He has to rely on his “honest” game, which G can actually handle more or less.
I actually share some of your concerns about G. It’s just that there is a huge gap between having a general sense of his strengths/weaknesses and knowing specific matchup numbers. Especially when you’re not just talking about one matchup but making sweeping claims about a number of them.
His defense is definitely bad. But figuring out how good his neutral is and how easily he’ll be able to get charged up is going to take a lot more time.
In theory he could end up being okay even if his defense and neutral are bad as long as his offense is oppressive enough. And his neutral improves a ton at level 3 anyways.
The most you can guys can do ia compare him to the bunch of other characters that dont have reversals. Tbh I dont find that to be as big a detriment as people make it out to be.
Bison just won Evo, got no reversals. The pocket character was Abigail, got no reversals.
All this cuckery of a discussion got no reversal either.
Again, here’s the issue with saying that “His Neutral Improves at Level 3”. To get there, you had to have been doing well in Neutral at Level 1. Now, slower matchups, this is not hard at all. Guile, Sagat, Menat, some big bodies. You can take your time, usually get to and maintain at least Level 2 with no problem. How those matchups will ultimately go, I don’t know though I do think he’ll ultimately win a few of those matchups or at the very least break even with most of them.
But with the Cammys, Blanka, Laura, Mika, Bison and so on. Ones that want to live inside your grillhouse, maintaining anything above Level 1 requires extreme patience and near perfect proficiency in sniping very small gaps with slower than average normals. Is it possible, of course but in comparison to a majority of the cast that simply makes life immensely hard. There’s no secret tech to discover in this instance. The only hope is if there’s something he can take advantage of when they’re not already in your face. However unless it’s such a massive game changer, like the Blanka Ball punish where it immensely affects how a character is forced to even approach, I think 3-7 are fine as baseline matchup numbers.
Also, his offense won’t be oppressive enough simply because it’ll take him longer to get to the point where his offense could be considered “oppressive”. And even at Level 3, his offense isn’t oppressive moreso than a lot more functional. His two safest moves become -2 but unlike the usual -2 “gimmick”, he doesn’t have a reversal to cow the opponent into not pressing a button. His hope would be Spin Kick landing far enough away for the opponent to whiff a button and punish, but that would get figured out really fast. He doesn’t get oppressive until VT1, and yeah, he’s a monster in VT1 but ultimately you DO have to be a competent character until that point. It’s a big reason why Cool Kid was the only “main” Abigail to Top 8 at EVO. Abigail is a massive robbery character, but the first half of the match he’s just a punching bag. Cool Kid was basically the only one actually playing a solid game with Abigail prior to popping VT1.
Could the matchup numbers change, absolutely. Matchup numbers change all the time and I’m no expert on anything as we’ve seen. Most people, and honestly even myself, consider me to be an idiot who talks through his ass.
Pertho
Yes, Bison doesn’t have typical reversals. But he has a better V-Reversal, and EX Devil’s Reverse gets him out of a lot of shit and is generally oppressive as fuck. That’s not to say they’re fantastic or anything, but it’s ENOUGH. It allows him just the slightest bit of breathing room, which when used with Problem-X’s insane patience, makes him an extremely tough nut to crack.
Abigail, as mentioned, everyone basically just uses him as nothing more than a Robbery Machine. They don’t even bother to pretend they do anything until VT1 is cracked, honestly Problem-X is no different in that regard. But Problem-X used him as a secondary against characters that can’t really handle him regardless. Cool Kid was the only Abigail I’ve seen have ANYTHING resembling a neutral game or even attempting to make him work before VT1 is popped. Even ItaZan falls into those habits. Then again, Capcom did have Abigail be a more completely character without VT1 in Season 3.0 and…yeah, they learned why he shouldn’t be. Also people are starting to figure out how to deal with VT1. Mainly, unless they have some kind of sure fire way to beat it, just taking the Guard Crush. Abigail I don’t think is nearly as good as people think he is in 3.5, but people are still in their “pissing their pants” mode when he pops VT1. I don’t blame them, but cooler heads ultimately prevail.
Sagat vs G
Kinda. He doesn’t really care about Sagat’s Fireball Game and Sagat’s stuff is slow enough that he can be the one being oppressive. If Sagat is stupid enough to try to challenge him with Tiger Shots…well, we all say G’s VT1 is fucking insane. How about popping that shit twice in the same round? I need to see how the matchup goes more when Sagat tries to pressure simply with normals instead.
It will take an awful lot of time to adapt to having to hold mp all the time with Falke.
Even more so with my slow old woman reactions and finger speed.
Having a 3 frame gives you somewhat of a defensive game as you limit heavily the amount of real frame traps the opponent can perform on you. 3 frame light is the difference between Fang being able to maul you with strings or having to stop them short or take trade 0 situations from you. Plus Bipson has the longest 3 frame light in the game means he can force that light on you from longer ranges than other characters. What Saitsu said is correct also in that EX DR is basically a way to reversal in the neutral. Bipson players do EX DR in the middle of your block strings just because that shit can work vs shit that’s not tight and gets partial invince once in VT1.
Abigail has the biggest health and stun in the game and a 2 bar trigger that once activated shoots his defensive options way up. Especially in neutral and getting frame 1 armor shit on wake up.
If you want to do anything other than block when people get close to you with G you have to pick VT2 and hope 2 shots of your armor help in the supposed situation you’re going to be in defensively or use his super. Which TBF like Menat he should have super pretty regularly since he rarely needs to spend EX meter (and it’s one of the weirdest supers to punish and pushes you back on block). He potentially has enough stuff in level 3 presidentiality or in his VT1 to make up for being boo boo on close defense, but it is theoretically a lot of work with G to stay out of being in a really bad situation just to get in a really good situation.
V Reversal not really an option too much for G as you basically have to kill your comeback potential to get space and may deal with strings that are v reversal proof and get thrown any way. You dont get the option to opt to EX DP out and save the V Reversal for later like Guile, Sagat or Falke. Won’t be surprised if most of the decent Gs only just block all day until they get their trigger because blowing it when they’re not in a good space to pres level up just kills their chance for real momentum.
A really bad habit I’ve noticed with G players is using EX Meter…when either in VT1 or in LVL3 Presidentiality. Also even the top players are noticing how immensely finicky canceling into his Level 1/2 Over Smash is from his Light Normals. Doing it with EX/LVL3 is easy as sin, but Level 1…yeah, a problem. Glad to know I’m not the only one struggling with that.
Momochi doing exactly what I figured defensively. Just like Menat hold on to your super because that’s your one way out of some bad shit. Works out that like Menat he doesn’t really give a shit about EX meter after about the beginning of the first round. It’s about 6 frame start up which isn’t terrible either.
The Cammy match for Sagat is complete nonsense. It was bad in SF4 but it’s even worse here. This bitch simply does not respect any of your options and unless you play the perfect game she will be in your face the entire match lubing you up with plus frames for seconds at a time with no safe way to challenge outside of V-Reversal or TUing through her block strings. You have to stay super mobile but she has you beat there too, because she moves twice as fast as you do and has better air normals.
If there is a way Sagat reliably, consistently wins that matchup, I don’t see it. I’ve played SF long enough to recognise a fucked match when I see it.
I just like VT2 in general, try experimenting with VT2. I believe VT2’s usage outclasses VT1. Also the fact that VT1 is 100% based on confirming, at least in VT2 you have 1 hit of armor, full charge crusher, massive damage, a lot of different confirms + alil more. Only fucked up thing is VT2 Knee is -6 but you can use VT2 in a lot more scenarios.
I would pay attention to what MUs Bochan and other professional Sagat players use VT1 for. Personally I’m going VT2 against Falke for example for obvious reasons.