SFV Lounge: Ken is high mid. Kage is barely mid. F2P still coming

There’s enough signs than Zeku is tourney worthy. Appearance now seems normal, top players considering him.

Has the bonus of being able to slightly adapt to matches. I can buy it.

I also think though that Sagat goes good against him.

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Cody still weak cause he gets mauled on by a chunk of the upper tiers, that’s the only thing I can imagine that keeps him low. You require a pocket to win with him.

Is it because he doesn’t have a 3f to interrupt fake pressure reliably? I was thinking dealing with BS like air fireballs but shouldn’t Vskill beat most of those weird stuff clean?

also


man these forums are dumb.

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Slow walk, slow travel speed fireball with high total frame count leaves him at a defecit vs any fireball characters.

Huge trouble dictating space and making use of his normals due to being so immobile.

Ain’t that what the new EX fireball is about though? That plus the increase in walkspeed. Nearly every good but not great character has some struggles against the higher tiers, but is because the higher tiers are on the too strong side of the game.

Gief is S2 good again, which is great.
But he is top 12, maybe 10th best character at best.
Hard to make a case of him being higher than that with so many characters that just trash him hard.
Japan just don’t like being hugged by big, hairy men.

Gief could be one line up, along with Guile.

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Ed isn’t as bad as before now that they (mostly) fixed his punish game in the patch.

No, seriously. Get a room.

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SNK also are taking cues from previous mistake of other companies revealing a earlier build by being silent for awhile, revealing game mechanics is the ideal thing that should be done because that’s where the feedback is needed.

NRS probably did planned announcement more earlier MK11, but change their mind and move it so we got a more like 40% of the game when it was revealed compare to the reveal of SF4 and SF5 reveal that was just like 20%? of their vanilla version.

Seeing that you used to say Zangief was around top 10 in S2 and agreed he was getting downplayed hard in that season, interesting that you have him second to bottom row.

Guile is looking at Sagat next to him like “what am I looking at you for?”

Good that G is where he is. Can only drink the kool aid for that character for so long until you realize he’s just working way too hard to do basic robbery that other characters can already do. He’s not like Kage where he at least has a lot of basic offensive and defensive meta tools to make up.

A few characters at the bottom probably shouldn’t be next to each other, but I think the reason the tiers are so tough to make this year is that even though the lower characters aren’t getting hugely better than who’s already higher tier, they are getting closer. This season will definitely have more tournament winning capable characters than S3 and the lower characters are going to be more of a threat again. Even the characters that we won’t see winning many CPT events are going to at least be legitimate threats in brackets.

Karin and Cammy have been battling for better fast walk speed footsie character for a while, but it’s likely they are near the same place now like your list depicts. Most lists have one slightly over the other which means they probably are about the same strength wise now

Menat being high is good also. Just because Menat’s VT1 is 3 bars doesn’t really mean she went much anywhere, just that she can’t 3S Yun her way into match wins all of the time anymore. Japanese definitely have her a tier too low at the minimum.

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Karin vs Cammy is basically a pick your preference of better offense and damage vs divekicks and better AAs now, aren’t they? They always felt really similar iirc.

Shame Karin has the difficult AAs which is something I kinda hate in a character. The plutocrat was always cooler than the no-pants soldier.

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Yeah they’re both characters that have more utility based trigger activations and both characters are good at burst damage dump. Karin particularly being about near the queen of burst damage dump where if she has meter or a good counter hit/trade combo can just remove your life bar and stun you without any trigger involved.

Karin having to work for her AAs within the game’s balance is fine. If she could just swat everything out of the air Punk would likely be Sonicfox levels of win all the time in this game. With the right situation she has some of the highest damage/stun AA in the game any way.

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See @Frost you just want me to lose more papa Highland said so >:c

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I kept trying to figure out what actually makes alex a bad bottom tier character? (I feel like he isn’t) and even alex mains can’t seem to agree on what it is. It went from being his normals, to AA’s, to Oki and now he pretty much has all of that and still people consider him bottom.

Doesn’t make sense, especially since he could be the poster boy for SF5 meta.

Then I got to thinking about what makes or breaks every single character when it comes down to it and the one thing that stuck out 100 percent of the time was frame data.

All these nice changes here and there or buff here or there, the biggest and most defining buffs every patch with sf5 is frame data. Characters go from low to high or high to low off a 2 frame change, and I thought back to alex and how they nerfed the heck out of all his normals frame data and with almost 2 years of buff he still hasn’t been the same since.

Laura? Same thing
gief? You guessed
ryu? yup
chun? yup
ed? yes sir
abigail?..lol of course
Urien? mhmm

Even cammy is feeling it a bit this season.

In a nut shell this game is really at its core frame data 5. Any significant buff you want to see to a character needs to start with frame data changes.

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wtf why do I have a cake next to my name? lol

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This image showcases that this is one of the few times where Capcom is actually making the right decision for once :slightly_smiling_face:

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Excuse me

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And so it begins…

oh wow, Eventhubs with a clickbait article title, nothing really new about that.

About Karin, IMO, Karin have way better anti-airs than she even should have. Her st.HP and cr.HP work fine for standard jump and EX Resenha is great.

Karin have one of the best ground control in the, the best whiff punishes in the game, very good anti-fireball tools, amazing throw/shimmy game , stupid big boy damage, 3F, EX DP decent CCs, good mobility, good back dash.

Karin is a perfect character, having a serviceable anti-air is more than she needs, i feel like she was already killing everyone in S2 with weaker AAs.

I generally feel like characters who completely dominates the ground shouldn’t have that strong of an aerial control game. Especially when the character basically doesn’t lack in any area of the game to begin with.

Maybe they think she is balanced around not having a robbery VT but look at it that way, she doesn’t have one and she is much better than 70% of the rest, that she doesn’t need one. I wish i understood their thought process.

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