I like chip kills, but I’m really glad a CA can still do so. Gives supers a utility niche besides damage dump, however small.
But I’ll really miss dumping a whole bag of ex moves into a cornered opponents block before the ko pops on the final 15th blockspark.
I believe it actually does add pretty interesting strategic decisions to the match. I play Falke who probably has nearly the most issues regarding CA only chip kills of any character in the game and still find it fun overall regardless. It’s something you have to plan for and changes the way people think about the match in SF which is good. Everything being based on meticulous balance is boring. I come from cheap games so I like cheap shake up stuff. Long as there are things to utilize to get around it. It doesn’t really have horrible effects on the meta like super dash in DBFZ does or anything like that (gotten so bad that Maximilian has even called it out in a recent tube video regarding the overall state of the game).
Not quite as this game has a chip system around it any way. If the white health block system wasn’t in the game I’d be more of a problem, but the white health is part of why the game is based around the no chip kill thing and part of what makes the CA only chip kill thing tolerable for me. I like how zoner characters like Falke can make every normal they throw affect your decision making even if you simply block them. It’s something that would get stupid pretty fast in its current implementation if you had chip kills, but works enough in the current system.
Past that, Neutral Kombat 11 gonna let everything chip on every touch and have chip kills too. Which would make an interesting set of competing ground neutral games at events. Seeing one extreme vs the other.
Dislike no chip kills, especially when playing a zoner. An opponent with zero life suddenly loses all disincentives to avoid blocking projectiles so you really have to risk life by getting close, something that is entirely against the zoner’s gameplan. Super might do the work although they can still V-reversal and I hate myself whenever I use a whole super for the chip kill in the first round.
Allowing chip kills for EX moves is a fair trade for both sides.
How does it work with the current system when it actively works against how the system operates for 99% of the match?
The game passively punishes you for blocking too much with white cheap and regular chip. Except at magic pixel where that stuff suddenly no longer matters unless I, the player who is winning, dumps my entire meter to make it matter again.
You guys call it interesting, but to me it’s just punishing the winning player for “hype” and as a nerf to zoning.
I suppose that depends on how you design the zoner. I don’t feel most of the SF zoners are really playing for chip damage most of the match. Its not until a character is almost dead when suddenly it become a “I could chip you out in other games, so I should be able to here”.
To continue the MK example, chip is a huge factor in MK, and definitly not an afterthought, so removing a chip kill would be a much bigger dea.
I just wanted to say, I think you make a very good point, even if I don’t personally agree.
Like I said the white health chip system makes it pretty interesting and I love how making people simply block 5 s.HP’s from Falke makes people panic like hell. Start dashing into c.LP, PP, jumping into PP and then plays into my life lead further. It’s something that wouldn’t happen without the white chip and CA only chip kill system they’ve implemented and like new psychological things like that in neutral.
It’s actually a big part of why I like playing Falke because I have these huge buttons that outrange the fuck out of most everyone else and everytime they block them they have to make a psychological change in their game. Once that health goes up their will to block keeps going down and if I have a good lifelead towards the end they have to come to me and risk getting smacked by j.MP or c.LP into death any way.
You’re losing me here. I don’t understand why it wouldn’t work with chip kills. In fact, it would immediately make neutrally strong characters way better.
It would make neutral characters better, but make the non neutral characters way too stupid. Ibuki and Necalli instantly become way stronger with that system. Unless you made a system where the zoner specific characters do more white damage, but then that’d probably make Menat and Guile restupid/top tier over the other ones and so on.
I think the current system works well enough with changing how people approach the matches and a character like Falke works in design specifically because of the white chip system. She doesn’t have the greatest offense but the fact that she has huge ranged normals that convert and do white chip on block means she plays this psychological effect on people that’s very unique to SF. In a way that would have to create really esoteric changes to go around otherwise to allow all chip kills.
For me overall it’s personally fun and can’t really have a problem with it especially with prior experience from Marvel and anime games. Seeing the psychology work in SF is really fun.
I think “way better” is a bit of a stretch. I think mostly it would just remove the feeling of “I used to be able to insta-win here”. Which doesn’t describe a large percentage of matches.
Chip outs were one of the few situations where you could guarantee a win and the opponent could do nothing about it.
For me the no chip kill in SFV reminds me of how people reacted to parries in 3S and how they removed chip kill scenarios and make the neutral random. Ultra David went on about this on the forums concerning 3S, but now 3S is the fabled god SF game and it’s all good.
The grass was always greener. Now its made of shit.
That said, i never liked SF4, and think SF5 is an improvement in most ways.
Way better in the sense that blocking their hits at mid-screen would be more dangerous. Like Jin is saying it would make the rushdown characters dumber, and I agree to a point. But characters, like say Ibuki, are only of so much threat till they close in. Meanwhile a character like Falke would be more able to take advantage because she can keep dicking you at midscreen with her buttons, which would make it easier for her to initiate a chip out situation theoretically.
The way to avoid chip outs in to avoid being in that situation to begin with by not blocking when you shouldn’t be. But of course Capcom just removed that nuance because lesser players (talking in general), don’t like anything beating their block.
Ultra David and Chen went on record on their stream and said they prefer V over IV as well. That’s a pretty official pass for SFV at this point. Especially considering both were guys that weren’t big fans of SF3 and SFIV likely promoted more of what they originally liked about SF.
And I agree with you to a point.
Is is definitely silly that chip magically stops when you have 1 HP, and it cal lessen the effect of fireballs if it wasn’t a chip-out situation.
But i also think its dumb to have situations where there is no way out. (In this type of game at least)
I liked it more when the threat of chip kill forced more clutch decisions out of the player with low health and was more impressive if they could actually navigate through that threat. Having to spend all your bar to maybe force that (they still might have v-reversal available) is not that interesting to me. Shoot not even EX gives that threat and that would cost a bar.
Also I’m in the camp that thinks if the person made enough poor decisions to get into chip killing range in the first place then they deserve it. It’s just a checkmate for the round if you can’t avoid it, but you had all round to avoid it beforehand.
One anime system I can tolerate that mitigates chip kills is in GG and BB where you have to use meter to avoid dying to chip and it just drains the longer you use it. When you run out… that’s it. Can’t avoid it anymore.
At the very least I’d like to see players with 0 health to give in SFV lose some bar every time they block a special if people can’t stand dying to a chipped special.
…It also sucks that when going back to an older SF game, I get hype over something as simple as that. “Oh you can die from chip in this game! Can’t just block it out!” <- I feel like I shouldn’t even have to say that when playing SF.
3S is still my favorite. It just feels great to play, and that counts for alot.
I’m not about to argue its the most competitively sound fighting game though.
Yeah and that’s always been my thing. I don’t care for most competitively sound fighting game. There are things competitively that I am picky about (hence why I don’t like most of NRS’ shit and generic 2 ways dashes in anime games).
With that, I was never a big fan of A + B must always = C fighting games and the most viewed fighting game clip in video game history came from the volatility of 3S.
They were both also big stans of eSports.
Look how wrong they’ve been.
2nd Ultras we’re almost necessary in SF4 to cover the character weakness in that regard. Most of the new ones were anti-fireball Ultras, the others were unique ones like Rose U2, Elena U2 or Guy U2. Most of them weren’t comboable and there’s also differences in raw damage between the two choices. As a Makoto player I had no choice but using U2 against zoners like Sagat, but SFV doesn’t have many borderline situations like that. Outside aesthetic reasons adding new CA’s would be pointless. V-Reversals are already underused thinking on what a V-Trigger can give you (comeback potential), new V-Skills instead could be useful, but we already saw the mess of having different purposes. I mean, Fang has a shitty V-System and giving him a better one could help him, but I don’t see Capcom spending time to give something useless to Guile or Ibuki to balance, players would keep using the better option and the worse one will stay unused anyway. Waste of resources.