this place is supposed to be the “competitive edge?”
well shit we don’t exactly do a good job living up to that do we 
You can say what ever you want about SFV. It has its problems, like any other game. I hate stubby normals and characters locked behind their Vtrigger.
The love/hate cycle of fighting games will never end. People forget that SFIV was ridiculed throughout its lifespan. Yet so much of what makes SFV what it is was based off the things the FGC complained about with SFIV and SFxT.
No more crouch tech, just take the throw bro. DP-FADC kills risk/reward, crushcounter those bad boys. Too much vortex/set-play, three different wake ups. Necessary 1 frame links, frame buffer/homogenized combos. There’s too many OS’s, no more invul backdashes, but muh defensive options. Too many timeouts, watch grey life pile on while you’re blocking correctly.
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It all makes sense now!
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Man I want to agree with you but there are lots of Rufus and Viper players who got very far without ever needing to learn to play “conservative”.
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We were talking sf4 and sf5. Not Rufus viper urien and akuma…
This is why I stated “outside of certain matchups” in an older post and pretty much always state this when I get into this kind of conversation.
Yes fuerte is a thing, but fuerte isn’t all of sf4 same way vega and OG gat aren’t all of ST
Yeah, divekicks were one of the “mechanics” I was alluding to earlier. It’s less about divekicks and more about high priority aerial moves… ie viper burn kick as an example also belongs with the divekick thing.
The other 2 mechanics I hated in sf4 were delay crouch tech and all the games option selects that allowed for autopilot pressure against waking opponents. Those are what made me drop the game in 2012… but I got 3 1/2 good years out of the game so I was pretty happy.
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Ya’ll just need to control the newtral. Falke teaches people to play conservatively. Be a conservative fighter over there sir.
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It’s rather difficult with 9-14 frame startup anti airs, increased input lag over sf4 and a jumpin risk versus reward exceptionally skewed in the jumpers favor because of low damage slow AA’s that have high hitboxes so you have to hit a jumper earlier in their arc.
This is of course by design. “Fixing” the AA problem isn’t going to work out well even if the AA’s become 3 frame jump invincible AA’s that hit at chest height (about the easiest AA to time that there can be) and also do 100 damage, the game still wouldn’t be “fixed” because then you have a huge problem with how to go about offense when there is such a not great ground game that you now have to chiefly rely upon. That’s why this kind of fix and that kind of fix and this tweak here and that tweak there… won’t work. The problem is systemic and the games mechanics are littered with it. You change one thing and it will no doubt screw up the rest and cause major imbalances that might lead to even more degenerate gameplay. Like it or not, for better or worse, sf5 is more than likely in the place where it will end up and future characters if they stick to the sf5 balance plan won’t be able to introduce much new to the system because the system is largely just a sandbox where different attributes get allotted to different parts of a character.
You only got 50 points to spend so do you spend 10 on a reversal, 20 on a good poke, 20 on a command grab, 5 on a wakeup oki option that covers both rises, 15 on a throw that gives you pressure afterwards, 30 on a fireball… etc etc etc.
50 points. That’s all you get. That’s how capcom is balancing the game.
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The one thing they would really have to do to “fix AAs” other than making them faster is just making it so the hit stun isn’t as heavy on them. The big reason why jumps are so good is that you can land a jump button at the top of a person’s head and usually still get a full combo. This was also a thing in SFIV, but luckily the optimized combos after jump ins were generally harder and the AA’s were faster.
That’s why Falke is interesting because her PP and c.HP would be broken if they were in older games. Even with the input delay you can input them so early that the opponent can eat them before they even start falling from their jump and PP does pretty good damage for a grounded AA. If you land it deep enough can combo intos super as well. If they make anti airs much better than they are it’ll pretty much only be Bipson and a couple other characters that will ever be able to frontal jump on Falke.
Most of the top tiers have adequate AA for this game. Ibuki in particular can stun you or kill you if she has enough resources and VT2 when you jump. Almost impossible to frontal jump on a stocked up Ibuki. It’s more so just the lower characters have sketchy AA and the input delay at worst just causes people to be afraid to AA at key points. Either way games like ST/3S/Alpha jumps still happen pretty often.
In ST its impossible to AA Vega consistently on reaction especially with buttons like his j.HP that force you to block by the time he touches the top of the air. Yeah he’s not the whole game, but by being top tier he is a whole lot of the game. That’s before considering wall dives which are meterless neutral crashers and he’s generally a character that can hurl himself at you with safe shit until he’s in. ST Rog is also nutty as hell and if he gets in once you can die. Once he has super he removes most of the moves list of a lot of characters. If you get hit by the super you basically dont have a life bar anymore or are dead.
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I kinda like it how it’s always tried to use older games as example why SFV sucks and then Jin comes around and says nope.
It is entertaining.
Also if people want neutral, go and play Anime.
Unist, BB, GG all have it and in BB, Uni you can reset to the neutral pretty easy.
Risk reward isn’t as skewed in other games when it comes to defensive play.
A3 jump ins are as nutty as SFV, the only thing that’s keeping it honest are VCs. Nothing says don’t jump like a 60+% VC combo with potential leading to an infinite. Especially since you start with a full bar.
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I’ve come to this conclusion:
Every SF will have things you like and dislike. Understand this, you’re free to go and PLAY another game. Recently I’ve been playing SNK Vs Capcom: Chaos and I must say the SF characters are really interesting. They have fully functional DPs and footsie buttons of old. Violent Ken’s Cr.Mk and Fst.Rh are certainly excellent.
Those still complaining about SFV should just move on. I don’ get why you man put so much energy into it. It ain’t gonna change drastically. CCs aren’t going. Necalli won’t stop jumping. And Ryu is never gonna be good again until SF6 S1 and then he’ll get nerfed to death. Haha.
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I don’t have any doubt about Capcom trying to improve SFV like they always did with previous SFs, but the core and flavor of it will remain the same. I think most people aren’t able to move on because the other games don’t have the same following or they just don’t like what these games have to offer.
Who cares anyway, this kind of discussion happen every time there’s no news, EVO and a G teaser will give us something else to talk.
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I’m afraid G will end up having a controversial reception at EVO like Abigail did in 2017. I get that they’re tied to a schedule and can’t really change it anymore, but I think that a Sagat trailer at EVO would have been an easy way to get a positive impression about the game at an event watched by thousands of people (because people are going to cheer for Sagat no matter what).
Same thing with EVO 2017, if they swapped Abigail’s announcement for Menat they could have got much better word of mouth. But they clearly decide the character schedule very early on, so…
I can’t believe that people who have " Good footsies " still have zero understanding of how to play the neutral or how it actually works.
The reason the neutral is " messy " is not because of stubby normals, it is not because of crush counter normals, it is not because of the fast forward advancing normals, it is not cuz all of that.
It is all because of how stupidly overpowered forward dashes are. That is simply it.
Most of the dashes are really fast and you need to preemptively try to check them, this is what enables the crush counters and make them work. 90% of the crush counter normals are whiff punishable and if you can’t whiff punish it, then its on you.
Sure i get annoyed by fast forward advancing moves like Ex tackle, sure it annoying especially being VTC and leads to great oki, but i don’t mind having the fast unreactable options. You need fast unreactable options because otherwise, the game becomes a turtle fest.
All of that nonsense aside, i just don’t get why are people aren’t accepting or moving on from something that have been the same for 3 years.
I also don’t get the people who say " But Zoning doesn’t work". When the game really have 4, maybe 5 dedicated zoners. And 2 of these 5 are considered top 5. Menat and Guile. Who else could be said to be a dedicated zoner ? maybe Falke (not really zoning in the traditional sense), Sim and he is mid tier, Ryu (Again, Ryu never was stay full screen and throw fireballs nonstop and expect to win everything).
So the whole, zoning doesn’t work shit is nonsense to be honest.
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Better options in the neutral would literally make dashes less of a threat. They would still be a option but the game would not be nearly as “messy” as it is now.
I always wanted faster dashes for sfv before it came out but they took out everything that would keep them in check lol
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There are moments where I wish Capcom would have done with SF5 what I heard the plan was with New Generation: no returning characters, all new heads with a totally new and different system. They’d never do it, for the same reason they ultimately didn’t do it with SF3, but I think it would have been interesting and maybe tempered expectations more.
Speaking of returning chars, this breakdown vid from AutoMattock is a great watch if you’re either a) interested in Cody, or b) interested in seeing how to effectively self analyze your matches:
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Ryu and Ken were always going to be in New Generation, that rumor of old has been debunked but it keeps coming back for some reason (like a lot of other rumors and ideas that make the Story thread get mad).
Until “VT1 Tiger Artillery”, unlocking his fireballs, show up.