Falke was artificially aged, both body and mind. So she counts as being of age.
Poor girl. I want to protect her and make her happy.
And win against Fang, Abigail, Birdie, SIm, Menat, Cody and a few others with her.
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The only thing I liked about Sakura’s VT1 was that extra move that it gives her. The one that looks like Chun’s b.hp. Never really dug into that vtrigger beyond that.
Win against F.A.N.G, Sim and Menat with her.
Oh boy.
In my experience Falke doesn’t do any well against fellow zoners. I’m particularly clueless in the Dhalsim matchup. She still probably does much, much better than Zangief though.
Hmm so I see how the people who actually play the game have survived the 3 year long bitch-fest by people who never got good and don’t even play the game anymore but somehow feel they understand it well enough to use terms like “sloppy neutral”.
Just ignore it.
That’s cool, I guess.
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There is absolutely no way she will be worse than Gief on those MUs.
If you can space yourself correctly, I feel like she can give Fang hell with her long buttons.
For Menat, Sakura was working well. But I sucked a lot against Sim with Sakura. I am hoping I will feel the Sim MU better with Falke.
Still even if they lose 6-4 or 5.5-4.5, that is still a massive improvement over Gief’s 7-3 to 8-2s.
Besides, I like the design and looks of both of the girls in SFV and that helps a lot when it comes to me sticking with a character. 
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Juri would be a better choice for most of those
Juri has cooties.
@darc_requiem I feel like this is a bit disingenuous. X game feels like X game, but we are talking about degrees here. Alpha games have enough sf2 in them for it to feel immediately noticeable. The alpha games, which do differ amongst each other from customs to chains to infinite’s, still have a core gameplay of poking and walkspeed and anti airing that feels very much like each other game and a lot like sf2.
Sf4 feels that same way. It’s “different” of course… the way a puppy in a litter is different from its siblings, but still seen to be the same along very basic lines… not a perfect example, but as an example of smaller degrees, it does serve that purpose.
“Fighting games have always been about using the safest moves and spamming the hell out of them”
Yeah this is true. It’s also something I said years ago, but it’s pretty common knowledge, this is why I hated the “commitment” aspect that capcom tossed into the game. FG’s have rarely been based around commitment. They tend to be based around safety first, then you use that safety to set your opponent up for the big stuff… it’s FG 101. But what sf5’s commitment based offense basically means is that “the safe stuff” does basically nothing and tickles the opponent or wastes resources on block… neither feels like good gameplay. It doesn’t feel like good gameplay for the entirety of a round to feel like it’s summed up by “my opponent blocked my v trigger cancel, so I lost/my opponent got hit by my v trigger cancel, so I won”
Now obviously that’s a hyperbolic statement, rarely does it come down to this ALONE, but it is OFTEN one of the biggest things that determine the outcome of a round, and Indeed, which characters are higher tier.
Saitsu is both right and wrong in my mind. Capcom won’t be changing the core aspect of sf5. Firstly because there is way too much shit to change to make an actual difference in substantive feel of the game, rather than just style of the game. I could list out the problems, but we all know them already so there is little reason to rehash it at this point.
But froztey is correct as well. There are certain things capcom could do to make the game better that they would probably be willing to change that could make a small enough difference that they wouldn’t change sf5 from what it is, while making it a slightly more palletable offering… like throwing in one sugar to make coffee more palletable to people that don’t like the taste of coffee… sure it may not work for the majority of coffee haters… but for some it might be what is needed for them to get over coffees inherent bitterness and enjoy a nice cup of joe.
Also, and this I think is the biggest take away, sf5 should be complained about… SO THAT SF6 DOESNT END UP IN THE SAME BOAT ( if there’s ever another streetfighter that comes out in the near future after sf5 seasons run their course) The sf4 haters complained very loudly about their disdain for that game, they were few and far between but these were the guys in the crowd with 3 proverbial megaphones blasting their opinions out for everyone to be heard, while the people that liked and loved sf4 were just kinda enjoying the game, playing it, having fun, and sometimes quietly whispering how much they liked the game. Outside of 3 bullshit mechanics that got extremely abused in sf4, I personally loved the game… it just felt a lot like old school streetfighter, but without oldschool bullshit like vega walldives or easily setup throw loops… fireballs had better overall balancing and were relevant without completely defining the meta, pokes were very good but without being so brain dead that you could just could just poke with zero thought.
Sf5 has a lot of good things going for it, so it’s easy to see why some people love the game. The problem is that for every good thing it does for new school players, it tends to take away stuff for oldschool players…, this isn’t inherently a problem, but to me, the actual problem is that the new gameplay is objectively worse than the older gameplay… my opinion of course but the older gameplay deviated from homogeneity much more and was much more punishing for mistakes while allowing a style of safe play that could be used very aggressively to assert ones dominance if one was objectively better than their opponent, at said oldschool game.
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A more accurate statement
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I’m confused. Since when is SFV exempt from criticism? I thought a forum was a place where people can share differing opinions? We are not in North Korea, are we?
She loses to Fang and Sim the hardest IMO, but I dont personally have much problems vs the Sims I’ve fought so far. The Platinum Sims are mostly really bad and just do random ports that she can PP on reaction. Fang is just really bad and he can just OS light pressure her and block her EX PP if he knocks her down.
Menat is hard until you get V Trigger then its not that bad. She can’t reflect the trigger shots so you can pierce her neutral a lot more easily once you get them. Falke is one of the better characters at dealing with her trigger also. If she does any of those dive + throw ball shenanigans just EX PP it away. One good V Reversal kills most of her trigger momentum also if you have it available. Falke can also low shot under her soul spark on reaction also so if she just sits back with the orb near your body just wait until she does it. If she doesn’t do it just keep walking forward to close the gap until she does it. Nice as it makes her randomly one of the only characters that never has to really deal with that move.
Guile I think is even. Air fireball fucks with most of his horizontal gameplan and he has to flash kick at specific point to get it to get through her air fireball. Which then if you get him afraid of air fireball you can start jumping in on him. Whoever has the life lead can dictate the match.
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Old school games had huge pay offs for understanding tech and game mechanics. You could be fundamentally much worse than an opponent, but beat them because you understood that game’s hidden tech a lot better.
I remember being one of those guys who jumped on SF4 early while lots of the Singapore community was still playing KOF. When the KOF heads finally started to play SF4, I was beating all the top KOF players who I’d never even began to approach in KOF because they took a very long time to figure out stuff like crouch teching, safe jumps and option selects. The KOF top players eventually overtook me, but it took some of them months, if not years.
SFV is a totally different game because it tries to reward both better fundamentals and decision making more. Middling players cannot hide behind a shield of knowledge and tech anymore and top players know that even if they understand the game better, they cannot afford to make bad decisions. When I play SFV, I feel exposed for being predictable in a way I never did in SF4.
I think people will continue to argue whether SFV really does “reward better fundamentals and decision making more” but to me the fact that it’s largely still the same top players dominating tournaments is evidence enough.
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@Dime X game feels X because initially no one knows what the new iteration does. They play the new game like the old game. Players begin to figure out the new systems and quickly playing the new SF like the old one will get you bopped.
@Volta SFV isn’t exempt from criticism. The game has issues. That said, with most games. They’ll come out. People critique the game, assess what they like and dislike the game. Some decide that despite whatever flaws, they like the game enough to keep playing it and continue point out it’s strengths and flaws. Others decide that the cons out weight the pros. They move on to something else. That latter doesn’t seem to have happened what SFV.
There is huge segment of people that “hate SFV” but can’t move on with their lives. It’s like those people you see in shitty relationship. They bitch all day about how terrible their significant other is, yet stay in the relationship. At some point stops being the company’s fault for making something you don’t like, and starts be your fault because stick around when you don’t have to. This isn’t 2009. The fighting game genre isn’t a wasteland. There are plenty of options. Why spend a shit ton of time on something you don’t like. It doesn’t make a lick of sense.
Can you imagine someone saying
Guy A) “Yeah man, I hate my girl. She keeps running around on me with other dudes”
Guy B)“You gonna dump her right? Fine girl at the coffee shop been trying to get with you.”
Guy A)“Nah man, a new year is coming up. Maybe she’ll change”
Now lets’ flip that conversation.
Guy A)“Yeah man, I hate SFV. The game has no neutral and fuck these crush counters dude”
Guy B)“You gonna drop it right. Fighting EX Layer just dropped and I know you was all about EX back in the day”
Guy C"Nah man, season’s half way over. They’ll roll out a new balance patch. Maybe things will change"
I’ve seen that second conversation repeat ad nauseam for two in a half years. You can sub in Marvel, Tekken, Dragon Ball, GG, Blazbue, Cross Tag, DOA or whatever you want for FEXL. It basically boils to “I got options but, fuck that let me just bitch about SFV” If that is how you want to spend your time fine. Pro players make a living off games and have to stick to whatever has the largest prize pools. The everyday player has numerous and no such restrictions.
Edit: Forgot something. We are 
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I play with some guys who have crazy good footsies and who are fundamentally sound: they still think this game is fucking shit.
Get off of your high horse. You can like the game for what it is and isn’t. But don’t pretend there’s more to it than there is.
Edit: I mean, this is just a preposterous notion. You have Bonchan who got second place with Sagat at Evo spending hella time just shitting on it but its okay. Neutral is so bad that when Menat is on screen hitting normals stream monsters act like the world is ending. Ed Lover.Gif
Oh wow. Some random guys who you say are good at footsies say this game sucks. Oh man, I’m so sorry, I didn’t know better.
Edit: You also have Luffy, who beat Bonchan, who basically stated in an interview with Chris T “this is just the kinda game where you do some things because you have to. It’s not safe, but sometimes you need to do it. That’s just the game, and you need to adapt to succeed”
Menat controls the newtral. Menat is like Elena without the healing and fancy trigger combos so works out better.
Anytime Ultra SFIV gets played on stream the stream monsters get hyped up and then once Elena comes to bully the game they get tired.
Elena complaints are kinda w/e to me. When Super came out the complaints were about Guile, Honda, Fei etc. Big issue with elena is that janky ass hurtbox with her. If they fixed that the match ups wouldn’t be so unbearable. But hey, remember when Rose Orbs were like 2-3 frame start up and had no recovery on it?
Those were good times.
They may be random guys but so are you. If people who have solid fundamentals find the game lacking, then you can’t just go around throwing that people quit the game because they don’t have a good neutral.
Hell that Luffy quot cosigns what I said. “Sometimes you gotta do random shit because fuck it SF5 YOLO Red Bull Money”.
Wtf is that?
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I wish I had an alert for Elena shows up on stream. That I was I could laugh at all the salt in Twitch chat. I remember Elena being considered weak at first. They she Adon’d everyone 
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I never said that people quit the game because they don’t have good neutral. I said they quit the game because they never got good at this game.
If the game requires more calculated reads as part of its vision of what “the neutral” should be, then getting better at reading opponents fast and making those calculated reads is that’s what it takes to get good.
Adapt or quit
(No I’m kidding, there’s option number 3, quit and bitch about it on a forum that’s supposed to be the “competitive edge”, because that’s mad healthy).
Edit:
I want to be clear on this. I respect Bonchan alot and his criticisms on the game should be taken seriously.
But there are also lots of top players who like the game and have given it serious praise, but they just get dismissed as “shills”. This is classic confirmation bias.
This is true, but it wasn’t necessarily the norm imo. I could”d beat people that were better than me MUCH more, in sf4 because of tech, but I could also beat people that were worse than me, because of my fundamentals.
So which wins? The answer is clearly BOTH. How good your tech is will determine how much better of a player you can beat that outfundamentals you, but how much better their fundamentals are, will also have an impact on how good your tech is and whether you can get into position to even use it. I feel like sf5 is much less like that. For both fundamentals and tech. To me, the guy that wins in sf5 is the guy that better knows how to play like an idiot/dumbass/pants in the wind style of play. Now this is of course also a matter of degrees. Stupid play works at certain levels in all fighting games. It also stops working at certain levels or only a few characters can pull it off. Sf5 feels like the dumbshit works for higher and higher levels, and the smart shit takes more and more levels of play to actually start working. It feels like in sf5 you largely have to dumb your own shit down at lower levels… to win… s9 the game makes you play like an idiot yourself, against someone who comes out the gates swinging.
So what’s the difference? The difference is that in older games people couldn’t just come out swinging and playing like idiots and actually have a productive time and take games. They had to learn how to play in a conservative manner before they learned how to play in an aggressive manner. Sf5 is the opposite and I personally feel that it’s at a detriment.
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