I do agree that it’s pretty clearly trying to ape many situations found in 3D up close interaction. However, I think without the movement options and slower moves and specific hit levels in 3d titles, combined with the added priority system and horribly skewed risk/reward , it is significantly less interesting and far more flawed.
To me, injustice/nrs titles do it better because they mimic 3d frame data and hit levels with 2D safe specials thrown in, so there’s more going on. I’m sure without priority a lot of it would open up
Idk wtf Jin is talking about but there is no -2 mixup situation in oldschool that is PREVALENT. Yes you can get mix3d up from -2, but it isn’t a prevalent strat at all and the only reason it’s really available is because of long throw ranges… and even then it sent something tha is a core mechanic of the game. In 5 it definitely is a core mechanic of the game and most characters have a -2 or something along that lines that will create the situation, though of course some characters are more adept at it than others and some have more ways to set it up or have stronger reasons to want to try to set it up.
I personally don’t have a HUGE problem with the situation, there’s a lot of shit that’s way more annoying about the game. But the -2 sf5 situation feels like a core component of the game pla6 and something that is as contingent to the design balance as 3 and 4 frame jabs.
Not that specific mixup, just there are other games in general where you are in situations where the opponent can do things to reverse your momentum despite being in a “bad” situation.
I get that, but that seems like a completely different thing. And I can’t remember a game where that situation takes on a big part of the gameplay. Reversals from bad situati9ns always existed, but sf5 afaik is the first game to really seem to take that situation and mold it into a point of contention. Things like ryu fhp. Ed’s charged st.hp, Laura’s L elbow, rashids L mixer, kens HK hurricane etc etc etc are all over the game (chun ex legs bla bla bla) there is no game that i know of where reverse mixups are such a prevailing thing. Tekken and soul calibur come the closest that I know of, and there it really isn’t a huge thing… just something cute sometimes that you can sometimes go for.
MKX was absolutely terrible in this regard. Not only did you get tons of situations where characters would put themselves in -ve frames with advancing moves, then bust out an armoured special, but the armoured specials were launchers that led to full combos on hit and were safe on block.
If there was a game which did it worse than SF5, it would definitely be MKX.
NRS finally tried to address it by universally nerfing armoured ex specials that launched, but by the time they did it, it was really way too late in the game’s competitive life to matter.
Should be noted that Laura can’t really do the -2 mix up because she doesn’t have any invincible way of making you respect a blocked elbow. Best she can do is an EX elbow and that only has armor on the 3rd frame.
Anyways, so how about that Cody? Played a bunch of games against cody for the first time yesterday. That dude has a lot of really good normals.
FTR I do not think MKX is very good because of that and using armor as a defensive mechanic in general. But I would consider that the exception rather than the rule.
Oh, you want to put me in a -2 situation and take 75% of my life away with your VT combo? Too bad bitch, I’m going to back dash 3 times and heal. Now I dare you to do it again.
I think Cody is good, we just need more notable players willing to sacrifice their mains to put him on the main stage. Momochi seems to be developing a master plan with him.
As far as I can remember Guile has always gave Cody (SF4) some issues but I think after they figure out that MU things will start looking better. I don’t think any other character can straight up abuse him…maybe Cammy/Menat…edit: And Grapplers abuse everyone, ask Knuckledu (even thoug he still won)
Shit is like an endless loop every other week lol. What I can say is that it’s easy to fall into a negative headspace when playing. I feel like what ultimately helps is combating the inevitable, “Ah shit. Nothing is going well for me. My AA’s are getting stuffed. I can’t do shit. Why does this game hate me so much?!” wave that will flood your mind when playing. Most of this game is mental. Once that goes to shit, you’ll definitely start to play like shit.
There are times when I watch streams and see great players reach a point where they lose and begin to rant. Sometimes towards the game…others towards the player. I guess my main point is that it’s perfectly fine to lose. It’s perfectly fine to get bodied. Now that sounds easy saying that here on the forum when we know how things can change in the moment. We just have to be mindful of the things we feed our minds as we play.
You’re good. We all good. Sometimes we just gotta get outta our own way in order to make progress.
Cody isn’t bad - probably mid tier. He’s a bit hard to play but fun. I think he needs a projectile invincible move to be a solid tournament pick because he loses hard to Guile and possibly Menat and Sim.
Momochi has been playing Kolin at Rage and VSfighting and doing well with her. I’m not sure if he’s saving Cody for EVO or if he’s going back to her full time. I’m hoping at the very least he’ll put him out as a counterpick.
The -2 mixup isnt just about reversals. It’s the spacing and options that over time lead to weird shit. Laura does -2 elbow on block and blocks, opponent throws her, same situation, Laura techs, opponent shimmies, Laura gets blown up. Laura starts to backdash, opponent starts to either do CC or dash up blow up. Laura does st.mk xx v trigger cancel and kills them (LOL)
Of course this interaction doesn’t happen often, but it’s a part of the eventual mindgame that eventually you will be making guesses along these lines even if you know about the shit… here’s the thing:
If the blocking person allows Laura to get away with blocked elbows, then that Laura has a significant advantage. If however they start to throw the mixup on Laura, eventually they will have the aforementioned situation happen.
And finally, Laura has a super. And blocked elbow is… rather scary when Laura is sitting on super… this is sf5. Players do that shit.
Back to gold, but I had the massive displeasure to learn that Menat’s st HK not only hits high and works great as AA, it also has the privilege of hitting crouching people.
That was quite unnerving.
It is’s about using an invincible move to challenge the normal/tech option an opponent has after they’re at advantage from a move that leaves you at -2. It turns out to be that most of these are used as reversals; in a few cases you can do it with supers.
As already stated it has jack all to do with spacing because in the vast majority of these scenario the character to puts himself at -2, does so by leaving himself at point blank range.
So as far as the -2 mix up is concerned, as a term that applies to SF5, it is describing that particular situation. Is this situation found in other fighting games? yes. Is it as prevalent as 5? No.
I saw you finally using tick c.LP’s into SPD. Guess that stick helps. That’s one of the things you were missing to pressure people with. Just gotta make better assessment of which SPD to use. Sometimes you’re sitting on a bunch of meter and end up using a LP or MP SPD instead of EX to get the extra damage and free oki.
Cody’s pretty solid. He would be stupid if he had projectile invincible move since VT2 pretty much turns him into a character that can blow up any fireball character that isn’t Guile. Projectile invincible move would make him more manageable vs Guile, but it would just make him more oppressive vs anyone else that fireballs. Guile, Sim and Fang are probably his hardest matches. Think he’ll do alright vs Menat since he has a fireball that travels slowly so he can put a hit box on screen regularly that can hit her without worrying about her disjointed hit box stuff. Plus it travels slowly so if its reflected it wont really bother Cody and likely gives him a free jump in. VT2 can make rocks fall on her head to help you approach and V Skill likely helps break up her v trigger shenanigans. Can HK Ruffian or V Skill any obvious dives also.
He probably has one of the hardest v triggers to optimize with pipe, but once done so believe it’s easily one of the strongest. Safe on block sweeps that already is pretty safe and basically the best in the game before trigger, rocks that take up the vertical space and force people to think before they jump, unblockable setups, a command grab off a dash that you cant react to everytime that leads to that unblockable, pipe that reflects projectiles while throwing his own fireball back at the opponent, very open ended trigger.