SFV Character Request/Anticipation Thread

[SideshowRob]

Necalli is going to draw a bunch of people.

1. He is new
2. He draws the large group who love dark godlike badass characters.
3. He looks like he has a lot of tools/options.
4. He looks awesome, and looks even more awesome when he goes into god mode.

But bison does all that minus point 1.

Eh, Bison’s a different sort of 2 than what they’re going for with Necalli.

Necalli has that looks-like-he-was-designed-by-an-angry-teenage-boy thing going for him that Evil Ryu mastered in SFIV. Bison’s more for people into the design aesthetics of 80s anime villains.

Necalli is the Bleach to Bison’s Fist of the North Star.

[SideshowRob]

Dammit, double post.

[john4p]

The Indian character I just want to be as far removed from Dhalsim as possible. Spiritual, but not mystic. Grounded (literally). Not a stereotype based on Ghandi.

Maybe the “Indian” character was just a misunderstanding and he is not really from India but just looks like a Native American.
I think Necalli is the character that initially might have been called Zen.

[Eternal]

A stereotype / caricature doesn’t always equal racism. But that is neither here nor there.

That is true, and I’m not trying to make such a blanket statement. But Street Fighter’s use of stereotypes are based on nationality, and for many countries this extends to race as a result. In a vacuum or more perfect world, this wouldn’t be a problem.

But the world isn’t perfect, and these games don’t exist in a void.

What is a problem is that the SF community in the West seems to think that the national stereotypes of majority white countries in particular are the exact same thing as race-based stereotypes of brown, black, and other peoples of color. The latter of which usually devolve into caricatures born of the sort of historically race-based propaganda that white people do not experience.

I can’t speak on Capcom of Japan and how their cultural landscape may or may not have lead to a different view on race in particular. But it speaks volumes that the Street Fighter series regards its black and brown characters with the same racist attitudes and beliefs as the West.

Exactly what is racist about Dudley?

[PVL_93_RU]

A stereotype / caricature doesn’t always equal racism. But that is neither here nor there.

That is true, and I’m not trying to make such a blanket statement. But Street Fighter’s use of stereotypes are based on nationality, and for many countries this extends to race as a result. In a vacuum or more perfect world, this wouldn’t be a problem.

But the world isn’t perfect, and these games don’t exist in a void.

What is a problem is that the SF community in the West seems to think that the national stereotypes of majority white countries in particular are the exact same thing as race-based stereotypes of brown, black, and other peoples of color. The latter of which usually devolve into caricatures born of the sort of historically race-based propaganda that white people do not experience.

I can’t speak on Capcom of Japan and how their cultural landscape may or may not have lead to a different view on race in particular. But it speaks volumes that the Street Fighter series regards its black and brown characters with the same racist attitudes and beliefs as the West.

Exactly what is racist about Dudley?

Black guy mixed with stereotypical British cult-like manner following and tea drinking, I suppose?

[GenUser]

Home screen needs to be the boss

[Scallat]

Dudley doesn’t strike me a rascist. His nationality and class are much more important to his character than his race. DeeJay asways struck me as pretty suspect though.

[SideshowRob]

A stereotype / caricature doesn’t always equal racism. But that is neither here nor there.

That is true, and I’m not trying to make such a blanket statement. But Street Fighter’s use of stereotypes are based on nationality, and for many countries this extends to race as a result. In a vacuum or more perfect world, this wouldn’t be a problem.

But the world isn’t perfect, and these games don’t exist in a void.

What is a problem is that the SF community in the West seems to think that the national stereotypes of majority white countries in particular are the exact same thing as race-based stereotypes of brown, black, and other peoples of color. The latter of which usually devolve into caricatures born of the sort of historically race-based propaganda that white people do not experience.

I can’t speak on Capcom of Japan and how their cultural landscape may or may not have lead to a different view on race in particular. But it speaks volumes that the Street Fighter series regards its black and brown characters with the same racist attitudes and beliefs as the West.

Exactly what is racist about Dudley?

Nothing, actually. Stellar character design that I’d expect to be white in most media. Blue eyes bother me a tiny bit, but that could be any number of things, so I’m all good.

But for all the good Dudley brings, it’s a little hard to forget all their Black Brutes (Mike, Boxer, Birdie), Noble Savages (T.Hawk, Elena), and Ethnic Mystics (Dhalsim, and Rose depending on how accurate it is that she’s Roma).

I’m just disappointed that this keeps happening in these games and that the fans keep defending it. I’d like to play these games without having to cringe at the racism or sexism or transphobia or biphobia.

[Citrus_monkey]

A stereotype / caricature doesn’t always equal racism. But that is neither here nor there.

That is true, and I’m not trying to make such a blanket statement. But Street Fighter’s use of stereotypes are based on nationality, and for many countries this extends to race as a result. In a vacuum or more perfect world, this wouldn’t be a problem.

But the world isn’t perfect, and these games don’t exist in a void.

What is a problem is that the SF community in the West seems to think that the national stereotypes of majority white countries in particular are the exact same thing as race-based stereotypes of brown, black, and other peoples of color. The latter of which usually devolve into caricatures born of the sort of historically race-based propaganda that white people do not experience.

I can’t speak on Capcom of Japan and how their cultural landscape may or may not have lead to a different view on race in particular. But it speaks volumes that the Street Fighter series regards its black and brown characters with the same racist attitudes and beliefs as the West.

Exactly what is racist about Dudley?

Nothing, actually. Stellar character design that I’d expect to be white in most media. Blue eyes bother me a tiny bit, but that could be any number of things, so I’m all good.

But for all the good Dudley brings, it’s a little hard to forget all their Black Brutes (Mike, Boxer, Birdie), Noble Savages (T.Hawk, Elena), and Ethnic Mystics (Dhalsim, and Rose depending on how accurate it is that she’s Roma).

I’m just disappointed that this keeps happening in these games and that the fans keep defending it. I’d like to play these games without having to cringe at the racism or sexism or transphobia or biphobia.

You know, I lived in Japan for 4 years and they have an entirely different notion of racism. Most japanese residents will just assume than anyone who isn’t asian is from the US, and they mostly only harbor minor racist feelings for chinese and koreans(which often times pass as japanese themselves, appearance wise). I think that all of their character stereotypes are done with lighthearted intentions that no one is supposed to take seriously or be offended by, but then again the western civilization is a lot more critical about these stereotypes. Hell, blackface is still a thing in Japan yet they love black people and take great interest in trying to have some sort of social contact with them if the situation arises.

And while on topic, what is dudley even supposed to be? I’ve heard that he’s indian/britsh from the udon comics, but looks mostly like a white person drawn with black skin tones.

[Scanman]

Nothing, actually. Stellar character design that I’d expect to be white in most media. Blue eyes bother me a tiny bit, but that could be any number of things, so I’m all good.

But for all the good Dudley brings, it’s a little hard to forget all their Black Brutes (Mike, Boxer, Birdie), Noble Savages (T.Hawk, Elena), and Ethnic Mystics (Dhalsim, and Rose depending on how accurate it is that she’s Roma).

I’m just disappointed that this keeps happening in these games and that the fans keep defending it. I’d like to play these games without having to cringe at the racism or sexism or transphobia or biphobia.

Holy shit it’s a videogame. Transphobia? Biphobia? Can we keep social justice bullshit out of it?

[Metroxylon]

I’m just disappointed that this keeps happening in these games and that the fans keep defending it. I’d like to play these games without having to cringe at the racism or sexism or transphobia or biphobia.

I cringe at the word “transphobia”.

And Dudley is racist because people can’t actually agree on what his ethnicity actually is.

[SideshowRob]

You know, I lived in Japan for 4 years and they have an entirely different notion of racism. Most japanese residents will just assume than anyone who isn’t asian is from the US, and they mostly only harbor minor racist feelings for chinese and koreans(which often times pass as japanese themselves, appearance wise). I think that all of their character stereotypes are done with lighthearted intentions that no one is supposed to take seriously or be offended by, but then again the western civilization is a lot more critical about these stereotypes. Hell, blackface is still a thing in Japan yet they love black people and take great interest in trying to have some sort of social contact with them if the situation arises.

And while on topic, what is dudley even supposed to be? I’ve heard that he’s indian/britsh from the udon comics, but looks mostly like a white person drawn with black skin tones.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Capcom’s character designers are sitting in a dark, smoke-filled room plotting how to be disrespectful to everybody who doesn’t look like them. And I fully agree with you that that’s probably the mentality that goes into these designs and characterizations.

Hell, it’s the exact same here in the U.S. when it comes to a lot of problematic material in media: something lighthearted unwittingly incorporates problematic elements and you wind up with something questionable. Why? Same reason it sounds from your experience that it happens in Japan: a lack of understanding of the context of those elements.

Using your example of blackface in Japan, I doubt they have the large scale cultural understanding that blackface was a purposeful part of white America’s campaign to negatively shape broader opinions of black people, in order to better oppress and control them.

Hell, most folks in the U.S. don’t get that. It’s more than just a bunch of funny caricatures. And that lack of understanding leads to the racist element being propagated further and not allowed to die, and those of us in its target range wonder why all media representations of us look like this lazy, big-lipped, dimwitted cartoon, and wonder why society at large treats us as such.

So no, I’m sure Capcom isn’t cackling away as they create these characters for the sole purpose of shitting on brown and black folks’ lives. But without realizing it, they are adding to a really big pile of really bad things in the world. And it wouldn’t mean much if Street Fighter were some local hit confined to Japan’s shores and didn’t have far-reaching cultural influence on a global scale…

But clearly that’s not the case.

[Scallat]

I’m just disappointed that this keeps happening in these games and that the fans keep defending it. I’d like to play these games without having to cringe at the racism or sexism or transphobia or biphobia.

I cringe at the word “transphobia”.

And Dudley is racist because people can’t actually agree on what his ethnicity actually is.

Because transgender people never suffer any predudice.

[SkiesOfAzel]

A stereotype / caricature doesn’t always equal racism. But that is neither here nor there.

That is true, and I’m not trying to make such a blanket statement. But Street Fighter’s use of stereotypes are based on nationality, and for many countries this extends to race as a result. In a vacuum or more perfect world, this wouldn’t be a problem.

But the world isn’t perfect, and these games don’t exist in a void.

What is a problem is that the SF community in the West seems to think that the national stereotypes of majority white countries in particular are the exact same thing as race-based stereotypes of brown, black, and other peoples of color. The latter of which usually devolve into caricatures born of the sort of historically race-based propaganda that white people do not experience.

I can’t speak on Capcom of Japan and how their cultural landscape may or may not have lead to a different view on race in particular. But it speaks volumes that the Street Fighter series regards its black and brown characters with the same racist attitudes and beliefs as the West.

Exactly what is racist about Dudley?

Nothing, actually. Stellar character design that I’d expect to be white in most media. Blue eyes bother me a tiny bit, but that could be any number of things, so I’m all good.

But for all the good Dudley brings, it’s a little hard to forget all their Black Brutes (Mike, Boxer, Birdie), Noble Savages (T.Hawk, Elena), and Ethnic Mystics (Dhalsim, and Rose depending on how accurate it is that she’s Roma).

I’m just disappointed that this keeps happening in these games and that the fans keep defending it. I’d like to play these games without having to cringe at the racism or sexism or transphobia or biphobia.

The blue eyes are easy to explain if Dudley is biracial, something that is pretty common in major UK cities. In general, i would say that the SF3 cast was an attempt to move away from racial stereotypes. Sure, there were wacky or comical characters but the humor or strangeness had little to do with race.

Elena was a bit of an exception but IMO she was a very positively depicted character and a love letter to Africa.

[Metroxylon]

I’m just disappointed that this keeps happening in these games and that the fans keep defending it. I’d like to play these games without having to cringe at the racism or sexism or transphobia or biphobia.

I cringe at the word “transphobia”.

And Dudley is racist because people can’t actually agree on what his ethnicity actually is.

Because transgender people never suffer any predudice.

NO. because “Phobia” is the wrongest of words to describe people’s opposition to said gender/lifestyle choice. Nobody is afraid of people for being trans or gay. They’re intolerant or repulsed to be more accurate about it. If you think I fear them then ask the question “Why is that?” Should I have any reason at all to truly be transphobic?

I’m not even the right person to ask this because I have trans and gay friends, and listen to Against Me.

[AriesWarlock]

Can we get an androgynous character, one that has ambiguity on fashion, lifestyle and identity?
Someone like Amane from blazblue maybe?

Negative.

[ruthless_nash]

I really think this would be good opportunity to reinvent some of the SF1 characters (not Birdie). I know these guys are not particularly popular, but they did pretty well with Eagle in CVS2.

They could make Joe more like a shoot fighter (Think Gai Tendou from Buriki One) or make Lee a mixture of Rufus and the Twins.

[TheKillerKiwi]

Unfortunately I doubt Yun will make it in, at least in the first batch of returning characters. Too many extremely popular/iconic characters above Yun on the list. Oh and you can’t have Yun without Yang, and I don’t think they want to use up two precious character slots on the twins when there’s so little space to begin with.

sigh

The only other character I really want in is Sagat. I hope they feel like he’s deserving of a slot in the base game.

[Citrus_monkey]

Unfortunately I doubt Yun will make it in, at least in the first batch of returning characters. Too many extremely popular/iconic characters above Yun on the list. Oh and you can’t have Yun without Yang, and I don’t think they want to use up two precious character slots on the twins when there’s so little space to begin with.

sigh

The only other character I really want in is Sagat. I hope they feel like he’s deserving of a slot in the base game.

I wouldn’t worry about the original 12 too much. I doubt sagat will make the initial roster either but we’re bound to see him at one point or another, he’s almost as popular as ryu, ken and akuma. Now yun and yang I highly doubt will make it at all. They were in 3 and they were in 4, plus as you said, it would be odd to have one but not the other, and we now know capcom is going great lengths to make the roster as diverse as possible…

[Virtua_Leon]

Here we go again, every time character discussion comes up the same rubbish about racism transwhatever gaywhatever has to reer it’s ugly head again and again

If anybody thinks dudley is racist or stereotypical then you’re a fucking moron, if anybody should be offended by dudley it’s myself i am british i am mixed race and i fucking love tea, and i fucking love dudley, are capcom saying that every english man or a large majority of them have a butler and drink tea and talk posh?
Of course they’re not, to actually call these characters racist is really an insult to those who’ve had to put up with racism