I want 2 throw a spanner in the works, what about OLD Ryu vs Guile as classic Ryu has faster F.B’s and comes out of them faster and has 1 less rotaion on his hurricane kick and has a invin D.P
You might be timing it too early.
This is one thing that could happen:
Ryu hits you.
You mash.
Ryu is not on ground yet, you start stand fierce.
Ryu lands, low short stuffs your fierce.
You have to get hit, wait a quater second, THEN mash.
damn, why didn’t I think of that. Thanks dude.
margalis already explained why Fbs didn’t matter in WW in Guile vs. Ryu. Ryu was just all around terrible and Guile was all around awesome. Why even bother mentioning it? In HF though, all of Ryu’s special moves are WAAAY better, and Guile is slightly worse overall (SB worse recovery, less priority on normals, damage on hit trades is worse).
The typical answer for eating a high hit is to sac-throw (BTW, sac is short for “sacrifice”, for anyone who doesn’t know/remember), but I swear that Ken and Ryu’s jumping attacks cause more hit stun than any other characters (at least in HF). I’m no stranger to throwing, but I find it very hard to sac-throw Ken and Ryu when they hit high. It seems like all they have to do is mash on c.short, and they beat my throw attempts.
Also, “jumping from two character widths away” with Guile is begging to be DPed. From that range, even if you hit with j.forward, you can still be DPed before you land. The only way Guile gets to land a clean move is if he guesses that Ryu/Ken is going to throw a FB from that range and jumps ahead of time.
In addition:
> So what this matchup really comes down to is how well either player can control the round, not how many projectiles you can chuck in a row.
Well DUH. Who said anything about chucking FBs “in a row”? If you go back and check out my description for Ken vs. Guile, you’ll see there are several points where Ken has to decided what to do, based on Guile’s distance away from him and his status (standing or crouching). It’s not like Ryu and Ken are blasting away at Guile mindlessly. However, they ARE going to be throwing a ton of FBs in the match, because that’s how they control the fight - Guile has to deal with at least 1 out of every 3 Fbs. That’s the key to the whole fight. Guile’s SB recovery doesn’t really factor into the match because it doesn’t protect him from that 1 FB out of 3.
but the point is that if you want to throw your fireballs faster than he can throw sbs then you have to do so somewhat predictably. Namely, more or less continuously.
And as for jump ins, yes Guile can never jump a fireball on reaction and hit Ryu. Its understood that he has to anticipate them.
Ultima: I guess you were talking about my earlier post about j.rh… I said “If I match a FB about 2 character widths in front of me and…” I’m almost fullscreen away here. Not in front of them. If they don’t FB, I don’t have to RH… I’m well outside of the range for Ryu DP anyhow (Ken is a different story). I’d say Ryu’s best attack then would prolly be j.rh.
Hrm… It seems people keep misunderstanding my posts. I guess I’ll have to proof-read better or something…
In HF, I would say this matchup is about 5-5. Just because Guile can only match 2 out of 3 fireballs, doesn’t mean he can’t keep up with Ryu. Guile’s short SB recovery does make a difference because that gives him just enough time to position himself or set himself up for a counter or even react to whatever Ryu does. Getting in close range is not as hard as you think. In fact it’s not very hard at all. The way I played this match was to stay just out of low forward range. I try to stay charged about 70% of the time, so that means I’m crouching most of the time. Even standing Guile has a few options to counter that jump in fierce. Ryu has a good fireball but that doesn’t mean that Ryu can simply win throwing out fireballs. When I played this match, I would match every 2 and avoided the 3rd one. Guile has to show the Ryu player that throwing fireballs isn’t going to do much. At some point the Ryu will have to change his plan if he depends on winning with projectiles. I don’t see how Guile loses to Ryu, simply because he cannot match every projectile. You see he doesn’t have to. Guile just needs to stay close, and in his face. It’s a pretty even match though, and one of my favorites, in HF.
Guile’s dominance never amounted to being able to out-throw projectiles. It came from his positioning. I pointed out the Remedial example as proof of that.
snips
I never said anything about Ryu or Ken chucking fireballs in a row - it doesn’t take a mind game to defeat anyone that does that - so I don’t know why you’re quoting me with reference to that, specifically. I never played a shoto after 1992 that did that.
Once Guile is just outside of low roundhouse he can throw out jabs or shorts - outside of the DP - to control distance, i.e force Ken into block (at which point you know what he’s trying to do). And if it’s a smart Guile player, he won’t throw them out totally predictably to get hit with a low roundhouse. Throw sonic boom and reset the distance if you have to. If Ken jumps you’re still close enough to have several options.
Ken can jump back, of course, or jump and spin-kick back, but Guile then throws a sonic boom and moves forward (hop-kick for a jump, walk forward for the latter) to position under the cover of his SB, which, because of his delay, affords him several options with normals.
If Ken throws a second fireball it can be anticipated (jump for forward and reposition) or stuffed with low forward (though it must be anticipated or it will usually trade). If Ken jumps forward, he has to kick/punch early, or all the other rules I mentioned earlier apply at that distance - Guile can also counter a jumping Ken with early Roundhouse (anticipation) and be right back where he was. I used to tell several of my Ryu/Ken opponents to jump in with Forward for that very reason.
And all the while Ken jumps back to “reset the distance” he moves into the corner for block damage and fewer options.
Like I said before, it’s ultimately a mind game.
- j
marvel scrub:
> guess you were talking about my earlier post about j.rh… I said “If I match a FB about 2 character widths in front of me and…” I’m almost fullscreen away here. Not in front of them. If they don’t FB, I don’t have to RH… I’m well outside of the range for Ryu DP anyhow (Ken is a different story). I’d say Ryu’s best attack then would prolly be j.rh.
Oh, okay. Well, the thing is, Ken doesn’t want to be at full screen - he wants to be between about 1/3rd and 3/4ths of the screen. So Ken actually won’t be throwing FBs from that far. He would walk forward a bit. 
jcasetnl:
> Guile’s dominance never amounted to being able to out-throw projectiles. It came from his positioning. I pointed out the Remedial example as proof of that.
Riiiiiiight. And what margaris basically said is that there were tools that aided Guile’s positioning in WW that aren’t present in HF and there are things that thwarted his positioning that exists in HF that weren’t in WW. IN WW, Guile didn’t have to worry about really fast FBs that recovered fast, he could walk into dps freely (didn’t knock down remember? Eat one hit, then throw), or, he didn’t have to worry about very dangerous HKs (mainly Ryu’s), plus his SB was slightly better and his priority and damage were better. WW Guile != HF Guile and WW KenRyu != HF KenRyu. I don’t know why you keep bringing this up.
> never said anything about Ryu or Ken chucking fireballs in a row - it doesn’t take a mind game to defeat anyone that does that - so I don’t know why you’re quoting me with reference to that, specifically. I never played a shoto after 1992 that did that.
DId you not say this?
It’s certainly there on page 11 on my screen. Dunno what is says on yours. Bold emphasis mine BTW.
Anyway:
> Once Guile is just outside of low roundhouse he can throw out jabs or shorts - outside of the DP - to control distance, i.e force Ken into block (at which point you know what he’s trying to do).
IF he gets into that range. I’m repeatedly told you and pointed out that getting into this range - and furthermore, staying there - is hard for Guile. Harder than it is for Ken to keep him out.
> And if it’s a smart Guile player, he won’t throw them out totally predictably to get hit with a low roundhouse. Throw sonic boom and reset the distance if you have to. If Ken jumps you’re still close enough to have several options.
If Guile is ducking at that range, Ken will either a) throw a FB right at him (may eat a backhand, doesn’t really matter, since after that Ken gets the chance to take control) or move backwards. It depends on if Ken is out in the open or close to the corner. He doesn’t want to be in the corner, of course, so that means he’ll likely stick it out and chuck FBs, even if it means eating a backhand.
> Ken can jump back, of course, or jump and spin-kick back, but Guile then throws a sonic boom and moves forward (hop-kick for a jump, walk forward for the latter) to position under the cover of his SB, which, because of his delay, affords him several options with normals.
And yet, his options are very likely to just get beaten by a jumping fierce. >:\
> If Ken throws a second fireball it can be anticipated (jump for forward and reposition) or stuffed with low forward (though it must be anticipated or it will usually trade).
Correct. Ken throws a FB at close range, which is matched by a SB, he eats a backhand. Now, who does what here is important. If Guile anticipates another Fb, he jumps in with j.forward, which has to hit a tad early or else Ken wil DP him, and hopefully he’ll land far enough that Ken won’t be able to DP even if he gets hit. However, it’s really a guessing game, since Ken doesn’t have to throw another FB at this range, though he wants to. What Ken does after eating a backhand is he waits a split second, since Guile has to jump immediately if he wants to hop a FB - any delay and he’s in trouble - and sees what Guile does. If Guile doesn’t immediately jump, he throws a fierce FB. Guile can’t reaction jump this at that range, so he either a) jumps up, b) throws another SB if he’s charged, or C) blocks. None of these options give him any advantage. Ken takes a step backwards, sees what Guile does, and repeats. At this point, Guile is out of the range he wants to be in and has to fight his way back in again.
Of course, Guile can walk forward and try to snuff Fb with c.forward, but that’s very likely to trade. Two hit trades = knockdown (possibly dizzy, which = death), and Guile will pay for it for the next 10-15 seconds at the very least.
This all applies if Guile is ducking. If Guile is standing, however…
> If Ken jumps forward, he has to kick/punch early, or all the other rules I mentioned earlier apply at that distance - Guile can also counter a jumping Ken with early Roundhouse (anticipation) and be right back where he was. I used to tell several of my Ryu/Ken opponents to jump in with Forward for that very reason.
Ken jumps forward at Guile if he’s standing. Ken is going to use j.fierce, which has a retarded large hit box and has a very high chance of snuffing anything Guile sticks out. At the very least he will hittr ade. Timing is still an issue, of course, but it’s stupidly lenient. If Guile jumps, Ken could reaction air HK, which even on hit trades knocks Guile down. See above as to what a knock down means.
Early roundhouse will take Ken out of the sky, but what about afterwards? that would knock him pretty far awarm out of Guile’s optimal range and back into Ken’s own (no, he would not be right where he started - Guile would have to move forward for that).
> And all the while Ken jumps back to “reset the distance” he moves into the corner for block damage and fewer options.
See above. Ken does want to avoid the corner. But regardless, it’s not as if he doesn’t have options in the corner. Certainly more than Guile does, which is “jump”.
[quote]
*Originally posted by Ultima *
> If Ken throws a second fireball it can be anticipated (jump for forward and reposition) or stuffed with low forward (though it must be anticipated or it will usually trade).
Correct. Ken throws a FB at close range, which is matched by a SB, he eats a backhand. Now, who does what here is important. If Guile anticipates another Fb, he jumps in with j.forward, which has to hit a tad early or else Ken wil DP him, and hopefully he’ll land far enough that Ken won’t be able to DP even if he gets hit. However, it’s really a guessing game, since Ken doesn’t have to throw another FB at this range, though he wants to. What Ken does after eating a backhand is he waits a split second, since Guile has to jump immediately if he wants to hop a FB - any delay and he’s in trouble - and sees what Guile does. If Guile doesn’t immediately jump, he throws a fierce FB. Guile can’t reaction jump this at that range, so he either a) jumps up, b) throws another SB if he’s charged, or C) blocks. None of these options give him any advantage. Ken takes a step backwards, sees what Guile does, and repeats. At this point, Guile is out of the range he wants to be in and has to fight his way back in again.
Of course, Guile can walk forward and try to snuff Fb with c.forward, but that’s very likely to trade. Two hit trades = knockdown (possibly dizzy, which = death), and Guile will pay for it for the next 10-15 seconds at the very least.
This all applies if Guile is ducking. If Guile is standing, however…
- Guile also, doesn’t have to “jump” after matching a FB. After any one of those options you mentioned, Guile is not at an advantage, but he’s also not at a disadvantage. If Ryu or Ken happen to jump back to “reset” the distance, there’s the possibility of being cornered after landing on a certain fierce SB. Even walking back, will give Guile breathing room and time to move forward.
I’ll agree that it’s not as easy as in WW to position and play agressively with Guile but I don’t agree that it can’t be done (and pointed out some examples as to why). As a sidenote, I guess it doesn’t matter that some of the most dominant players at the time used Guile with much success.
In that quote I was paraphrasing your argument, but I never made that argument. Now you’re quoting it out of context and telling me it was my argument, which in effect is arguing against yourself. I guess you can go dig up more stuff and take it out of context if you think that makes Ryu better in this matchup.
Seems like you’re more concerned with proving yourself right than who is better in this matchup.
Yes IF he gets in that range. And obviously for Ken/Ryu the idea is to keep him out. The primary obstacle to getting in this range is the FB. But it’s not that hard to move in. Because of its delay, at distance, the fireball is not difficult to work around. You make a huge deal about this but it’s really not.
Staying there is not that difficult either. The way you talk it’s like Guile gets into that range, gets a hit or two and then has to start over from scratch. Guile has an excellent pressure/poking game at that distance and despite his low priority normals, he can still use them effectively because of the short delay of the SB mixed with good positioning and mind games. I’ve already explained the pressure/poking game before.
Well, first off, I wouldn’t do backhand. I go into it more below.
If Guile simply walks forward and resets the distance when Ken either jumps back or jumps back with HK, explain to me how he gets beat by jumping fierce, especially when jumping fierce has such a short duration and leaves Ken vulnerable for the majority of time he’s in the air.
The very last option in this situation is for Guile to jump in. I would only jump in when I was confident I’d figured my opponent out. So let’s go back to the beginning and take it from Guile’s side of it.
If Ken throws the FB and Guile does SB early enough, the best thing is the hop kick, followed by reposition and low pokes since it allows you to charge immediately and re-position as quickly as possible. If Guile does backfist he has to move forward after it lands to reposition and start his charge a second or two later than he would have. The other option, if you’re really early, is to walk forward and low roundhouse, since you’re charged and positioned on the wakeup.
Now, I’m not saying the backfist is never a good idea, but at this range I don’t think it leaves Guile in the best position.
If Guile throws SB late, the Ken player may be tempted to throw a second FB, which can be stuffed/traded with low forward at this range. After the stuff/trade Guile then throws a followup SB and moves back into position. However, if he does trade, and gets hit with the FB, Ken has the advantage if Guile doesn’t get back in quick. Of course, if anticipated, Ken can also counter a low forward with DP (bad idea) or low roundhouse, however, since Guile is out of range of low roundhouse, Ken has to hit a limb, and when low roundhose recovers it can be hit with Guile’s low forward. This is a very effective poke for Guile. Either way, countering normals on reaction at this range requires ungodly reflexes and no strategy based merely on reaction will win consistently. This is why it becomes a mind game.
If Ken hesitates, or waits on the FB, Guile can continue to poke and position. The only time Guile should jump at Ken is when he’s way down screen or he anticipates the FB based on what earlier poking has told him.
This is evidence that you really don’t know this matchup very well. Guile doesn’t just stand there doing nothing, as you seem to imply, nor does he go hopping all over the place at close range. At close range, (the range I’ve been talking about), it would be rare, if ever, that Guile was not charging.
If Ken jumps forward at that range and Guile isn’t charged, he can walk under and do standing Forward. He can walk forward and take the hit, which allows him to reposition.
If Ken does jumping fierce and Guile walks under with standing forward, I believe it hits cleanly, but the other option is anticipate it and because of its short duration, use a whif tactic.
Standing roundhouse gets stuffed too often and is too predictable. I only use it to mix things up after my opponent is expecting a walk under or whif tactic and I’m confident I can use it cleanly. But even after the kick, Guile can be back in position before Ken lands by just walking forward. If he’s charged, he throws SB and repositions under its cover. It’s not that hard.
:o
Uh, there’s a lot ‘above’. What specifically? And Guile’s only option against a cornered opponent is to jump?
I guess as Doctor Evil would say: “Riiight.”
I’m done. This debate is too unwieldy and there’s no point in arguing with someone who thinks Guile is jumping all over the screen during a match. Go read a Gamepro guide or something.
- j
jcasetnl:
> As a sidenote, I guess it doesn’t matter that some of the most dominant players at the time used Guile with much success.
It’s not as if Guile sucks now, is it? Also, “dominant players” doesn’t say much, as when you’re dominant, you tend be able to dominate with almost any one.
> In that quote I was paraphrasing your argument, but I never made that argument. Now you’re quoting it out of context and telling me it was my argument, which in effect is arguing against yourself. I guess you can go dig up more stuff and take it out of context if you think that makes Ryu better in this matchup.
What rubbish. I said that ultimately it’s a matter of Guile not keeping up with FBs that RyuKen has the (slight) advantage in this match (and even with all of this, I still only think it’s a slight advantage, and it takes a lot of thinking and concentration n Ken’s part). At no point did I "say anything remotely equivalent to “who can chuck the most projectiles in a row”, so your para-phrase was quite inaccurate. You’re basically putting words in my mouth, and it’s not working.
> > Yes IF he gets in that range. And obviously for Ken/Ryu the idea is to keep him out. The primary obstacle to getting in this range is the FB. But it’s not that hard to move in. Because of its delay, at distance, the fireball is not difficult to work around. You make a huge deal about this but it’s really not.
> Staying there is not that difficult either. The way you talk it’s like Guile gets into that range, gets a hit or two and then has to start over from scratch.
Not quite, but it’s not far from that.
> Guile has an excellent pressure/poking game at that distance and despite his low priority normals, he can still use them effectively because of the short delay of the SB mixed with good positioning and mind games. I’ve already explained the pressure/poking game before.
And I’m telling you that they don’t work against a sustained, but controlled FB assault.
> If Guile simply walks forward and resets the distance when Ken either jumps back or jumps back with HK, explain to me how he gets beat by jumping fierce, especially when jumping fierce has such a short duration and leaves Ken vulnerable for the majority of time he’s in the air.
Whoops. I was referring to when Ken jumping at Guile if Guile started walking after him. Sorry abou that.
> So let’s go back to the beginning and take it from Guile’s side of it.
> If Ken throws the FB and Guile does SB early enough, the best thing is the hop kick, followed by reposition and low pokes since it allows you to charge immediately and re-position as quickly as possible.
Right. BUt after that knee, depending on how close Guile is, he still has to contend with the fact that Ken can just chuck a FB right at his face. C.forward is Guile’s main weapon, but Guile needs strict spacing to use it cleanly, or else he trades, which pushes him away, whjich he doesn’t want. And worse yet, two trades in a row = knockdown (+ possible dizzy = death).
t’s really a matter of Guile staying in c.forward range while charged, preferably with Ken in the corner. But as I said, it’s easier for Ken to keep him out of that range than it is for Guile to stay in it.
> If Guile does backfist he has to move forward after it lands to reposition and start his charge a second or two later than he would have.
Moving forward is when Guile is vulnerable.
> The other option, if you’re really early, is to walk forward and low roundhouse, since you’re charged and positioned on the wakeup.
> If Guile throws SB late, the Ken player may be tempted to throw a second FB, which can be stuffed/traded with low forward at this range. After the stuff/trade Guile then throws a followup SB and moves back into position.
After c.forward, regardless of whether it wins clean or trades, if Guile wants to get back into position to do something, he has to walk forward immediately. This is where Ken is watching. If he stops to throw a SB, Ken gets to jump at him. And if Guile walks forward, he throws a fast FB.
> However, if he does trade, and gets hit with the FB, Ken has the advantage if Guile doesn’t get back in quick.
Yup.
> Of course, if anticipated, Ken can also counter a low forward with DP (bad idea) or low roundhouse, however, since Guile is out of range of low roundhouse, Ken has to hit a limb, and when low roundhose recovers it can be hit with Guile’s low forward. This is a very effective poke for Guile.
No duh. But I don’t think Ken would try to stuff c.forward with a dp. Too risky. If Guile is at that range and charged, Ken is will either try to reset the distance by moving backwards, or slug it out with fast FBs. But DPing a limb is an option that Guile doesn’t have.
> Either way, countering normals on reaction at this range requires ungodly reflexes and no strategy based merely on reaction will win consistently. This is why it becomes a mind game.
Indeed. But I think it’s in Ken’s favour, simply because he gets the option ton control the match more often than Guile.
> If Ken hesitates, or waits on the FB, Guile can continue to poke and position.
He doesn’t have to hesitate that long.
> This is evidence that you really don’t know this matchup very well. Guile doesn’t just stand there doing nothing, as you seem to imply, nor does he go hopping all over the place at close range. At close range, (the range I’ve been talking about), it would be rare, if ever, that Guile was not charging.
And I’m telling you it doesn’t matter if Guile is charged at close range. No wait, let me elaborate: It doesn’t matter for long if Guile is charged, because even charged, Ken has ways to push him out. Ducking? Move backwards or slug it out. Standing? Jumping fierce, block sequence to FB pushout, Ken gets room to breath and is back where he wants. He still has to do a lot of work to win, of course.
> If Ken jumps forward at that range and Guile isn’t charged, he can walk under and do standing Forward. He can walk forward and take the hit, which allows him to reposition.
Hmmm. Possible, but it’s tough. If Ken sees that Guile is going to be under him by the time he reaches the peack of his jump, he can using j.roundhouse instead, which has a chance of crossing up Guile (clean hit = death) or hit trading. As for a hit trade, I’m not sure where Ken lands in relation to Guile. I’ll have to check that.
But mostly, in my experience, Guile doesn’t get the chance to walk under Ken at that range unless he started walking even before Ken left the ground. Ken jumps at him such that Guile is forced to block or counter from the front. shrugs
> If Ken does jumping fierce and Guile walks under with standing forward, I believe it hits cleanly, but the other option is anticipate it and because of its short duration, use a whif tactic.
Possible, but that’s if Ken jumps from so close that Guile gets to walk under him. Doesn’t happen often in my experience. See above.
> Standing roundhouse gets stuffed too often and is too predictable. I only use it to mix things up after my opponent is expecting a walk under or whif tactic and I’m confident I can use it cleanly. But even after the kick, Guile can be back in position before Ken lands by just walking forward. If he’s charged, he throws SB and repositions under its cover. It’s not that hard.
Walking forward does put Guile back in position, but a low attack from Ken into FB and Guile is back out of position. >:|
> Uh, there’s a lot ‘above’. What specifically? And Guile’s only option against a cornered opponent is to jump?
No, when Guile is in the corner, not his opponent. When Guile is in the corner and Ken is about 1/3rd the screen away (outside of FK through FB range), there isn’t much Guile can do except wait it out.
And no where did I say Guile is jumping all over the screen. ONce again you’re trying to put words in mouth, and it’s still not working.
I don’t know whats wrong with you people but all of ghgh’s posts seem to be extremely intelligent and informative. While you guys are spammin, flaming, and posting ignorant scrubby shit. Post something informative or don’t post at all.
So much so that it takes 2-3 months to read them. Damn that must be some deep shit.
No, I have read this thread like a thousand times, and I just thought I would bump it because you people were treating the opinion of others unfairly. Everytime someone disagrees with the majority, they get looked down upon.The only real reason to discuss strategy IS to have things challenged, proven, contested, etc… Whats unfair would be for someone to read a strategy and not hear the opinion of the many people who have tested and played this match on this forum, because we became afraid to hurt someone’s feelings.
Giving the ‘best’ strategy is ultimately whats more fair to the readers. If someone would rather be ‘accepted’ and ignorant, instead of taking some knocks and ultimately becoming better for it, they aren’t in very good control of their emotions, and probably need a counselor more than they need to be here.
I’m sure everyone wants to think up something that hasn’t been thought of. But what seperates good theory from bad is the hours people take to prove it, not the ability to make a post that sounds good and have someone ‘think’ it works, then go lose in a tournament because of it.
His very first line. Did we lash out on him first or did he attack us first? Since you’ve read it over a thousand times, you should have noticed. All we did was defend ourselves.
haha… i cant believe im this bored to read this… if you all really want to know. 2 players on equal level, ryu wins this match… no ifs ands or buts about it. ryu wins period…
What he posted was a fact. He was just trying to help you people become better players by explaining to you why you don't know what your talking about, and he was right. Maybe if you took his posts seriously, you could have drastically improved your gameplay, instead of getting upset when someone speaks the truth.He tells Apoc that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about without having a clue who he is. He posts tactics a scrub would laugh at. Refused to acknowledge chip damage as a determining factor in match. He spammed up the thread. He called anyone who diagreed with him an “Apoc-olyte” whether or not they posted before Apoc. He raved about the soft ban though he had no understanding of what one was. He flamed every single person who disagreed with him telling them not to respond. And you still say that he was ganged up on?
To top it all off after repeating terms like drone he changes his tune because he knows someone Apoc was talking about. That is fuckin’ lame.
As far as experience with the game I felt what Apoc and the majority of people posted. I trust Apoc’s experience over someone who can only speculate what it might be like at a tourney.
No one except for a few random posts favored Guile. A few said it was close with ryu having every option and a clear advantage. Most agreed Ryu would dominate. Of course Ryu can’t fly on Auto pilot but as much as guile can mix it up to confuse a non-thinking Ryu for a round perhaps but as every one agrees Guile’s options are limited. I see the match going to Ryu.