SFIITurbo: Guile-vs-Ryu--Who wins?

[System_1]

Alphastorm: I finally figured something out. You’re a lil’ kid! No WONDER! (No mentally mature individual would choose “Alphastorm” as a username. “Doesn’t it sound cool?!”)

But forgive my harsh words please. Your young mind doesn’t need to be persecuted for ignorance. Just have fun playing the games. That’s what’s important, okay brother?
And seriously, don’t rely too much on the SB block damage technique… okay? Oh - and drink milk, do your homework, and listen to mommy. All good advice - seriously!

[margalis]

I’m done with you, unless you want to play for money, in which case I’ll gladly take whatever you’ve got.

I repeat myself. Your “strats” are lame and everyone knows it, end of discussion.

[System_1]

Finally… Alphastorm: NAAAAAWWWW brother! I gave you an out a little bit ago and you didn’t wanna take it. LOL!! I said to at least say SOMETHING different…

and now you change your tune. LOL!! Okay, okay. Kids get away with everything nowadays!!!

It’s past nine!.. you know where you need to be!!..

[System_1]

WASSSSSUPP Margalis! Did I predict ya again?!? Wow!

<That’s why I said “watch this…” LOL!>

Honestly, Apoc sounds like he’d be very interesting to play against. He gives strats and criticizes pretty intelligently, in my opinion. That’s why I asked about where/what/who he plays. But you don’t sound so interesting to play against. I’m not just saying this to argue or even to get a reaction. Just plain and simple - if we played any older game, I’d win. No bets, no nothings… I’d win plain and simple. Know this.

<remember what you said… “end of discussion”>

lol!!..

[System_1]

guile owns ryu for free.

[Alphastorm]

My last and final post here. It’s obvious ghgh doesn’t know shit but why does he keep spamming? Is it not obvious? Here’s a hint: “NO ONE HERE AGREES WITH YOU!” Go back and troll in gamefaqs, we don’t need you here. k, done.

[System_1]

*Originally posted by Alphastorm *
**My last and final post here. It’s obvious ghgh doesn’t know shit but why does he keep spamming? Is it not obvious? Here’s a hint: “NO ONE HERE AGREES WITH YOU!” Go back and troll in gamefaqs, we don’t need you here. k, done. **

  lol.....the guy has every right to express his opinion like everybody else. just because he disagrees, doesn't mean hes spamming, infact hes helping expand the topic.

[Abhi]

*Originally posted by Apoc *
**

Not totally disagreeable. In fact most characters are solid in HF so the gap in matches isn’t so great. I honestly do believe that Ryu has an easier time controlling the match with reaction rather than anticipation. The fact that Guile can’t keep up in the fireball fight leaves him taking block damage and trying another avenue which the Ryu player is looking to react to. That alone is an advanage keeping Ryu one step ahead. All things considered though I would say that the match would be about 6-4 in Ryu’s favor. That’s speaking realistically knowing that not everyone is an expert. 6-4 is clear enough of a differential to declare a winner and knowing how to set up that simple low strong counter into 2in1 really slides it clearly in Ryu’s favor at mid-levels. It’s very easily employed and Guile needs to be advanced to avoid it consistantly. Guile can never completely command the match because of charging. Even using the hopping knee to pump out sonics can’t work cuz the 2nd boom can eats a hurricane on reaction outside of a wake-up.

That’s what I really think of the match. Flaming aside. It’s a truly great match but I definately see Ryu the clear victor overall.

About this part of your post:
"When playing beside an opponent, which most of us are used to here in the US, an experienced player may be able to get a (for lack of a better word) “psychic” sense of what his opponent is going to do. Other things include: immediately knowing who your opponent is (so you might know what to expect), feeling the body language of your opponent, and other intangibles that might give you certain indications. All of these things may help you to be better prepared to anticipate your opponent.

When playing head-to-head, most of those things are no longer available for you to take advantage of. It’s comparable to fighting a CPU with AI (depending on the level of your opponent of course). You can still anticipate certain things and read certain patterns, but there’s a certain “feel” that you cannot take advantage of. Plus, most of us are just not used to it."

I’d just like to add that while their are extra indications to react to, the real difference comes from the need to control your reactions. On side by side you can use all of the “advantages” listed that your opponent might be using against him. If my opponent is keen on body language then I can act aggressively to cause reaction. It’s much harder to control composure in American style. The screen is all that matters on head to head. For example, on side by side I can make you think you see a sonic boom whereas on head to head it’s completely obvious right off whether I’ve thrown one or not. Side by side you have to wait a split second to see if I threw one since I jerked the stick forward after blocking for 2 seconds and slammed the panel next to the button. Everything but the screen tells you that I threw won. You have to be discerning very quickly to not be fooled because I will be looking for that moment of confusion.

Just wanted to show an example of the other side of the coin that may better illustrate the clear difference. I could play next to a Japanese player and do that sonic boom fake with Rog rushes and bait counters all day. I did it to Bas all day in casual. It was great for a laugh because we both knew that he just wasn’t accustomed to those kinda tricks so his reflexes just went off because he’s used to being able to take everything at face value(screen only). I’d just tap the stick forward hard and out would come Bas’s dp or another counter leaving me the free hit. In America that would be elementary but in Japan that would be dirty because it is, in fact, a whole different ballgame.

Apoc. **

Yo Apoc, I remember when you answered my Q about the 1993 US rankings. I hope to come to U.S later this year or early next for a break and when I come , I would like to challenge you on the older SF’s and SF 3rd strike, as I grow weariey here and we can possibly remise on the days of SF(1991-1995) , as you seem to know your stuff. Possibly we can have tea and crumpets BUT I prefer hadokens and shoryukens. So what do you think ?

[Apoc]

*Originally posted by abhi *
**

Yo Apoc, I remember when you answered my Q about the 1993 US rankings. I hope to come to U.S later this year or early next for a break and when I come , I would like to challenge you on the older SF’s and SF 3rd strike, as I grow weariey here and we can possibly remise on the days of SF(1991-1995) , as you seem to know your stuff. Possibly we can have tea and crumpets BUT I prefer hadokens and shoryukens. So what do you think ? **

Sounds good. PM when you’re planning your trip:D

Apoc.

[Alphastorm]

*Originally posted by qak *
**

  lol.....the guy has every right to express his opinion like everybody else. just because he disagrees, doesn't mean hes spamming, infact hes helping expand the topic. **

He’s not helping if the only thing he contributes is spam or wrong info. He can post his crap in Gen discussion and no one would care but if you post wrong info in a strategy section, then people will jump on you. We should help new players not make them worse.

[Abhi]

*Originally posted by Apoc *
**

Sounds good. PM when you’re planning your trip:D

Apoc. **

yo Apoc, can you clean out your PM as I want to send you a serious PM and its 2500 words so it about 3 of them or I will send u my e-mail and u can reply as its about the trip BUT I have thought of a wicked idea

[System_1]

RYU, stop f***in’ beasting!!!:lol:
He’s too good.

[Alphastorm]

Originally posted by Chris Landon *
RYU, stop fin’ beasting!!!:lol:
He’s too good. **

Hey, I swear I’m a top player. Now can you pay for my plane ticket to seattle? I’d like to visit my cuz.

[Tam]

uhm… vids of expert ryus vs. expert guiles… >>
is there a thread for SSF2T Guile? I don’t know <<

I play SSF2 online… and when I saw there is a tournament coming for SSF2T, I decided to join but I don’t know crap basically… so I’ve decided to take the time to view vids and practice

gimme some vids plz thxs in advance pm the urls plz

[System_1]

guile and ryu? who cares. its all about sim

[smacked311]

apoc, i know you are a renowned sf player with a lot of skill and was wondering if you could make a thread about gief in st or even hf because i tried to start one but no one responded to it…sorry to butt into this thread but i seriously couldn’t find a gief thread guys…

[Renegade]

GHGH, I have to agree with everyone else here and think you’re pretty scrubby sounding.

First off, you call APOC, one of the best SF players in the country AND one hell of a good contributor to these forums, ignorant.

Then you post whack strats that a group of 2-3 friends playing on the super nintendo would figure out. In case you didn’t notice, this is SHORYUKEN.COM… not a site for the ‘newcomer’ or the ‘beginner’, but upper level tournement players (or it aspires to be). So, I’m sure the whole comment about ALL OF THE USERS ON THE BOARD who go to tourneys being super geeks went over really well.

So strats like “Ryu wil jump, he always jumps.” are totally stupid.

What if he doesn’t jump? Can Guile MAKE Ryu jump at him? The answer is no, he can’t. Ryu throws fireballs faster, and so GUILE must do something about it. Of Course, we are talking about distanced fireballs, because throwing fireballs at a range where you get backfisted or jumped on for free isn’t exactly a good idea.

About the Hurricane Kick thing. Say Guile throws a boom. If He is far away and not following it (i.e. charging his next one) , Ryu does a short hurricane, and lands past the boom and well before Guile can get to him. If Guile is close, Ryu can do RH Hurricane and hit Guile OUT of the boom. If Guile is not close, but following the boom, the boom gets nullified by one fireball, and guile has to block or jump the next fireball.

And yes, AlphaStorm’s throwing a boom for block damage is a sound strategy. You only have so many pixels of life. Would you rather have your oppenent have 95% life or 94% life? Easy, you’d rather them have less life. So you THROW THE BOOM FOR BLOCK DAMAGE.
Seriously, why would you sit there and block sonic booms willingly? Every one is one little step closer to you dying. If you block 10 sonic booms or so during the course of a match (conceivable) that’s like an extra fierce worth of damage that Guile landed FOR FREE. Why don’t you just let go of the stick and say "hey, hit me a couple of times… makes it more interesting"
It becomes more important when the oppenent doesn’t have eneough energy left to block it. So your ‘strategy’ of blocking fireballs will KILL you if you don’t have enough life left. I must applaud you for sound thinking, sir.

But, I guess you must think using block damage to win is ‘cheap’, just like throwing and using certain moves too much.

“ok guys, you only get to do 5 shoryukens this round… that move is too good”

Anyway, on to other points.

If you’re at a range where you can jump and HIT Ryu, a good player will try to push you out of that Range (with say, a low RH->FB) and start throwing them again. But usually if you react to Ryu Throwing the fb onscreen by jumping at him, you will get dragon punched because Ryu will recover in time. If you anticipated it, you had a good guess. Guessing, however, won’t win the match because he could have just as easily NOT thrown the fireball, and you just got dragon punched.

With Guile, if Ryu throws a full screen Fireball, Guile can do a Flash Kick . Ryu can’t punish it (he has lag on his FB and can’t get over there in time), Guile can still charge for a boom during the flash kick, Guile avoided the fireball, he moved closer to Ryu but didn’t risk getting DP’d. So Flash Kick over the Fireballs is a very good thing to do. I wouldn’t know THAT well, since I don’t play this match as Guile… but it makes sense (it works just like Honda or Balrog’s floating fierces do)

So, even though i’m not half the expert Apoc is… the match boils down to this:

-Ryu throws faster FBs than Guile
-Guile must avoid said FBs or eventually die, since they do cause damage when blocked
-Guiles options for avoiding a fireball include: jumping in (very risky), jumping up (does nothing but stalls), or Flash Kicking over one (i’m assuming it’s trickier to time, but at least you move forward).
-When Guiles FB is a problem for Ryu (i.e. Up close when Ryu can’t match or he’s backfisted), Ryu can avoid said fireball by doing a HK. Done Correctly, this either leaves Ryu safe or hits Guile.

[glass]

one question…
on average, how many should Ryu win in 100 matches against an equally skilled Guile…? just to put things back in perspective.

[margalis]

It’s about 6-4 or so IMO, which means Ryu should win 60 out of 100 or so.

---

The comment about tourneys really stupid. ghgh wants us to think he is good, but he doesn’t go to any tourneys and in facts holds tourneys and tourney players in disdain. How good could he possibly be playing his siblings? It’s the classic “I’m the best in my tiny neck of the woods” syndrome.

[System_1]

stop talking, just fight !
guile is the best