SF4: Dry Already?

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter IV
161

…nah…

Just cause its not dry to you, doesn’t mean the other person isn’t any good. As we’ve discussed int he XBox360 thread recently, sometimes games are just ‘missing something’…you play it you love it, but there is some poorly designed elemnt that makes you ‘stop’ playing it, andn ot care to come back. Anyone who thinks this game doesn’t have some kind of issue needs to take a look again shrug. I think its actually pretty damn balanced comapred to most fighters, (I admit there are bad match ups though)…its just the engine itself its ‘falsly exciting’…they give the illusion that FADC and ultras will increase the excitement…but with people who ‘need’ ultras to keep up not being able to combo them, and FADC combos usually not worth the meter, its all a bit lack luster over time. Whats the point in me mastering Rose’s long dmg strings when I can do just as much dmg for half the difficulty? There is no reason to try and develop anything else combo wise as the simplier combos are usually the better ones. The engine has some cool tricks that have been found - like O-S and unthrowale states, but in the scheme of things its just not as diverse as other entries in the series…especially since its almost like a SF2 3-D as opposed to a real SF4.

shrug

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162

elf does seem like a racist character to me too. however, the rest of what you say is silliness

163

I could totally be wrong, but I was under the impression that this game was supposed to be more about chess-like mind games than combo strings. At least, that’s what it feels like. So, if that was the intention, then there really ISN’T much point in memorizing long extremely challenging combo’s.

however if the goal was to reward combo strings then yeah I agree, they did a lousy job on that. I don’t really know, I’m just saying how it looks to me.

164

This pretty much sums up what SF4 is all about. People looking for long-ass combo sequences are definitely not going to find it in SF4. Watch a vid with top players and their play is predominantly about efficiency.

If you want reward for combos then you play BB or SFA3.

165

I feel the same. I like SF4 a lot, but I just flat lost interest in it around May, probably because it was the ONLY game I was playing from February to April. That and the competition online can be real discouraging.

166

No its not just limited to that, its limited by options…that was more what I was getting at. The game was designed to be SF 2 with some new features, and thats really what it is. I’m sorry I played SF2 in the arcades and played the hell out of Hyper/HDR in recent times…and I know I’m not alone…so the mechanics of the game don’t bring a really intersting flavor. SF4 basically gave ‘some people’ a second ultra and ‘some people’ a pseudo parry. Talk about the ‘chess’ of things, yet here we are with a thread floating around ‘complaining (for lack of better term)’ because no one is playing footsies. Remember how disgusting overheads used to be? Now there are only like 2-3 OH worth mentioning. Remember when there existed ‘real block strings’? For such a game of ‘chess’ it quickly and easily devolves into checkers. What character do you see at tournaments who isn’t based on ‘setup and punish’? The ‘footsies’ in this game are actually a joke compared to what I’ve seen and done in other games…even watching ‘top players’ videos, only a very small portion of damage is done by or caused by the footsy. c.jab spam leads to more dmg typically than a back and fourth ‘tag your it’ c.mk.

As a Gief player I use simple mechanics, its mostly strategy for me…I don’t want to spend my time in ‘training mode’ trying to practice my execution, I’d rather be reading up or working out strategies for beating strategies…but strategy wise there just isn’t that much variation in this game shrug.

I can’t speak for everyone who’s callign the game dry but its not a bad game…just…not long lasting in the scheme of the series.

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167

what would you like to see in a new version that you think would give it longer lasting appeal while still not being too intimidating to the casual crowd?

168

I don’t have the answers. I did enjoy SF4, just feels sorta…well dry after a while. There was a focus on bringing the old folks back with classic gameplay, but there wasn’t much in terms of ‘new’ gameplay…it plays like a slower ST with …very different move properties and easier to access damage with harder to perform combos…like it feels as though to make the game for the more die-hard players, they made the execution of links more crucial, but I find that outside of a few cases, there are simpiler and better combos to do. Yeah some characters do tkae advantage of ‘more insane’ combos, such as C Viper who can build stun meter FAST with her feint combo, but the reward for practice just doesn’t pull me in…I’d love to be ‘the best’ at a game, but this one doesn’t make me ‘want to’ put in that kind of time. As a first step its excellent, but it needs pepper some where (not talking balancing, that wont change the fun factor unless it convinces people to stop picking Ryu online)

Though they could start with some retooling of EX properties for some characters (why does EF lose armor on EX hops?), but thats not going to make the game undry…just funner lol

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169

thats a pretty reasonable answer. In my experience, I’m practicing a 1framelink combo that will dramatically improve my game, but maybe its not as important for all the characters.

maybe try a new character? or maybe hope that “dash” will add some spice to the gameplay.

I’m not a veteran, so maybe thats why I like the quasi vanilla gameplay that SF4 has on display. It’s easier to wrap my head around.

170

I agree with Unreallystic. The game is basically watered down ST with some shavings of 3S thrown in. Which actually IMO is one of the best formulas ever as far as getting a game that hasn’t had a sequel in 10 years to sell in great numbers again.

The problem is the fact that I have to use C.Viper to feel like I’m having any fun in the game after that. The game itself for me isn’t technical enough so I feel like I have to use a technical character to make up for it. I thought I was just going to like C.Viper because she was going to be a unique and challenging character and now after the game is out I realize she is the reason I like the game at all. There’s at least 5 other characters that I could see myself playing in SF3 or Super Turbo and still have fun playing the game with. Just because of the way SFIV works though I can only see myself having fun with the game as a whole as her.

I like games where everyone can do high damage and do it quickly like ST or 3S. In SFIV very few characters are capable of doing very high damage in one combo and characters that have to engage in ST style fireball wars have matches that go on for eons due to lowered damage on those fireballs. If I want to watch a fireball war all day I’ll just watch a high level match of ST where it actually ends at some point.

One thing that I’ll say is that it’s easy to say that SF3 (specifically 3S) is a better game than SFIV. Just like how Super Turbo was a much better game than SF3 NG. You have to give a game time to flesh out and learn from its mistakes and hopefully Ono sees that several of the basics of real competitive SF were left out in this game and it makes the game feel cheap and watered down. Some stuff like meaties and combo strings also working as block strings work better in 3rd Strike than they do in SFIV and that’s not good for the future of SF. The casuals will buy SF until it starts to get stale but for the hardcores SFIV is starting to get stale already since some of the basic tactics of what is supposed to be a spiritual successor to SF2 aren’t even available to use in the game. Maybe that’s just a sign of the times but I’d like to see it fixed so hardcores (at least the ones I know) aren’t trying to play their old games everytime a SFIV get together happens.

171

I like the slower gameplay and more defensive gameplay of SF4, but I do think there isn’t enough variation in damage between characters. For instance everyone says Zangief does crazy damage, but he really doesn’t in comparison to what someone can do with a simple hard punch->shoryuken combo, and Zangief can spend the entire match just trying to land a move/knockdown. I think if SF4 stayed defensive and slow like it is, but some damage work was done to make things more variable where high risk gave more damage (i.e. hard links, command throws, longer combo strings, maybe give juggles more damage, or reset damage scaling after a FADC). Basically just increase damage a bit for some of the harder to do things so there is a reason to do them.

172

The reward for combo links and strings is a mashed DP/EX messiah kick.

Unfortunatelly the game is more combo heavy than something like ST, cause in SF4 everyone’s combos start with short/jab string into special anyway plus stuff like that is so confirmable, plus this game has very little push back on block or hit. That’s why Bison or Chun can do like 4 shorts before cancelling it into something, which is absurd compared to past games.

173

I know this isn’t the place but I so want to rep your av lol :rofl:

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174

this thread needed a poll, and not all this jibber jabber.

175

You live in Houston and your playing online? The hell is wrong with you? Go play in person it’s so much better man.

176

I think the OP is spot on!

There should really be nerfs and buffs. Not major ones, just the necessary ones like giving some characters a way to land their ultra other than a successful FA, tweak the damage done by some moves, giving some of the female characters more health or balance out their dmg output etc…

It’s absurd how you combo the hell out of male characters, reset their a** and combo again for 30% dmg… Then it’s their turn, a few inputs and voila, the same 30% dmg. Sakura is a great, great example by the OP.

As far as the FA critics in other posts, I have to say I’m quite happy the way it is right now. When timed right you will crumple that jumpy opponent. I think it’s something new and useful. They way they adjusted the speed of the FA to each character is perfect, I can’t think of a character where it should be slower or faster…

177

This game is tapped. There’s not much to learn to PROGRESS THE GAME. Of course there are things to learn to make better players, but when you start seeing people reaching for shit, like a 30hit, scripted Sakura combo that is all but useless, you know the game has given all it has.

I mean, look at CvS2. I don’t really care for it, but like it’s been stated before; people are still finding new shit to do in that game. New teams and moves that work together. Same with MvC2 and 3S (to a considerably lesser degree). No one is finding new shit to try in ST. No new combos or blockstrings. It’s the same with SFIV. SFIV has reached ST’s level of innovation in terms of what we can find at this point.

But, I mean, this is all just what I see. I being THE WORLD’S GREATEST SFIV PLAYER est. 1918.

178

It’s definitively a sign of changing times.

Capcom is much more commercial nowadays,so I really wonder how Capcom perceive SF IV and the fact that it will sell ± 3 million copies.Do you honestly believe that they are bothered by the fact that it’s watered down?

Capcom has been hardcore oriented for most of it’s 30 years existence,but now I see the shift toward absolute mainstream success.Dropping Clover was the first sign,and now they transformed RE into Gears of War and they are releasing more shooters than ever.

179

Yea SF4 has pretty much run its course…
There’s nothing new left to discover.
Damage scaling for throws is so wack you might as well have jabbed them.
:wasted:

Hoping Dash has good extra characters.
SF4 is collecting serious dust.

180

Sometimes you have to wonder, though, if that “new stuff” actually progressed the game in a good direction. CvS2 lost it for me after roll canceling. The game was cracked open in a way Capcom obviously didn’t intend, and it ruined it for me. I’m sure some others felt the same way.

A3 also sorta died a little, too, as V-ism emerged more and more as the breakfast of champions. I just wanna play A-ism Birdie, dang it. No, I don’t want to memorize V-ism strings, thanks. But, “new stuff” sorta pushed the game in that direction.

MvC2 has progressed beyond recognition. This is not the cute little game I happily bought for my Dreamcast 10 years ago. Learning curve has skyrocketed beyond logic and intuition. Is that what people want for SF4?

After years of trying, Capcom finally managed to PUT A LEASH ON THEIR $HIT.

-SF4 has yet to introduce some random game breaking glitch or strategy that completely obliterates the game’s intended use. Success! (though the night is young…)

-After a year, SF4 is pretty dang balanced. Success!

-SF4 sold more than 2.5 million copies, managed to attract casuals, and extended to longevity of our favorite series. Success!

-Yet, in spite of it’s more casual appeal, SF4 still requires dedication and skill in order to achieve…Success!

Darned if you do, darned if you don’t, I suppose.

Do a good job balancing and controlling your game, and people claim it’s dry.
Do a crappy job balancing your game and let it get away from you, and people claim it’s broken.