flash kick, fadc jump air throw would be awesome.
Saw someone FK>FADC and jump up right alongside the opponent and I wanted to remind myself to try and follow that with an airthrow - I think he was playing a Bison.
Some more notes including visual suggestions for Guile.
Awesome post. I main Guile and probably one of the only serious Guile players in Chinatown Fair in NYC.
An any rate, even though Guile was given an overhead medium punch, I think they should have kept his overhead kick as well. Give him more opportunities to rush down and get some pokes in, especially because he has so many weaknesses.
Guile’s flash kick I think also has a little too much forward movement making it hard to hit opponents flying overhead. But i think having the full backwards range you mentioned would probably fix most of the flash kick weaknesses.
Guile’s fierce uppercut was never a knock down…I don’t think any character has an uppercut that is a knockdown…but it would be great for him to have some kind of knockdown move that floats the opponent in the air so you can combo into ultra. I mean, Rufus has 2 knockdown normals and special moves that easily float opponents in the air. Guile deserves at least 1 normal.
Guiles backdrop has too much recovery time. They need to remove a few frames from this.
Guiles cross up knee is too vulnerable to shoryukens. If you knee a tad bit too early on an overhead to someone like sagat or anyone with a shoto anti-air, they can just hit you immediately after they block.
Guile’s fierce kick doesn’t LOOK as cool as it used to. In previous versions of Guile his fiercekick animation had more bounce/hop since he did a quick forward step. It just looked cooler and actually looked a little faster. Looks aside, it was also a nice way to advance forward, albeit was a small forward movement…nonetheless it was there.
Guile cross chop focus attack is just pitiful and ugly. You would think they would give him a cooler and more appropriate focus attack that mirrors more of his other moves. Cross chop just seems totally random and “american” in a bad way. It’s like a fake ass chop you see in the WWE. Also, because guile has so many weaknesses extend the range of his focus attack. It makes sense for strong characters like Sagat and Boxer to have short ranges on their focus but Guile? It makes no sense at all.
This is a superficial critique but guile’s alternate costume is a copout. The charlie look is a good homage, but why not just change his hair style a little bit to make him look even more like charlie? What about keeping his sunglasses on (granted this wouldn’t make sense with him taking his sunglasses off during the pre-fight animation. Just giving him a vest and puffy pants are real cheap. Look at Chun Li…she has a totally different costume and looks refined.
Again, thanks for the really detailed post! P.S. We all know this version of Guile is a total fail…but I get a lot of pleasure beating shoto players in the arcade with Guile just because I know it takes a lot more to do so with Guile. 
You know Ryu players, in their heads, are saying…can’t believe I lost to Guile…Cheers!
Honestly I don’t see why Guile’s focus attack just isn’t an insanely beasted version of his standing fierce punch. Nothing says “fuck you” like a punch to the jaw strong enough to drop you to your knees. A cross chop is totally impractical and chafes against his character design imo. Either that or a slightly exaggerated version of his backhand.
But really, I’d love for his focus to just be his standing fierce but he takes an extra step toward them when he does it.
Agreed…i would like to see a haymaker version of standing fierce.
i didnt read the entire thread. but besides his flash kick being fixed… i would like it to do the SAME damage regardless how far he is when he connects.
and his CR. RH if it doesnt get changed… can we have a way to combo into a sweep? or a way to combo into the CR. mk (target combo)
Every time I come back to this thread, I get reminded of how illogical Guile’s move set and design really are. Going back to some of the older SF games last night for no particular reason, his flash kick was (compared to SF4) WAY better. It traveled more vertically, but still went horizontal enough to kick an opponent opening a match with a fireball. It hit front, overhead, and behind… and upon landing, he was pretty much fully recovered.
Initially, when I played SF4 and saw how Ryu’s lp.srk had lower priority, I thought it was a nice balance… until I found out they could juggle supers and ultras off it. No counter balance like that at all for weakening the fk.
Posted fixes a while back on this thread, but anyways:
- 2 frame combos and a couple of juggling options
- Gilley’s mp recommendations
- SF2HF flash kick
- … some kind of fast overhead attack along the lines of Adon’s jaguar kick as a third special move. Having the option like Chun-Li has of attacking over projectiles would add a nice dimension to his game.
- Sonic Hurricane ultra or Gilley’s recommendation for charge D,F,B,U as the super/ultra motion
WTF, the game’s mechanics don’t work like that, lol. You’re crazy. Might as well make Cammy able to do Cannon Spike FADC into air throw too.
If they’d given Guile the Sonic Hurricane as a super or ultra, he’d probably be able to do a Flash Kick FADC into it. But most importantly, c.HK into Sonic Hurricane FTW.
One thing I don’t agree with is giving Guile more damage on booms. He’s the only guy that can hit you with a fierce jump in, fierce you, sonic boom you then fierce you AGAIN without FADC.
If they fixed everything else, he’d have no need for extra damage on booms.
i find it funny when i read posts like: “if they allowed you to fadc guiles ultra…he might be too powerful” WHO CARES?!! have you even played a sagat? a ryu? a rufus? i’m fed up of totally dominating a match only for someone to do a cross up jump in into fadc into ultra.
i strongly disagree about the gief v guile and abel v guile matches being 5-5. abel has to watch out for being knocked down himself…but he can roll through booms and cross you up all day. as for gief, well against a decent player it’s one knockdown and you are done. there is no way that match is 5-5. i would say ryu is more beatable than gief, and he’s one of guiles bad matches too.
i think we guile players as a whole are too cautious when it comes to buffing him up. we should be demanding he’s overpowered in the next edition of street fighter!
Okay? i do not see why that would be a problem. Considering cammy has thousands of better options then to do that
FK FADC Air throw would be awesome.
Gouken would like to have a word with you.
lol i love this idea
If they dont fix Guile… I would rather see them take him out of the game all together.
He’s weak, and wide open when he wiffs his weak ass moves.
a lot of people are wide open when they whiff a move…
Focusing just on possible changes to FK:
I don’t think it’s such a bad idea to give it more invul frames. lk/mk version gets 4 frames of invul, hk version gets 5 frames, and EX gets…let’s say 10 frames(shrugs). This solves all the random trades against frontal jump-ins, so that an anti-air works as it should.
As for the concern of being too good against fireballs, that’s really not an issue. A bunch of other characters have similar mechanics(blanka, rog, and dictator come to mind), with the downside of bad recovery. If a shoto gets predictable with c.mk xx hado at the wrong range, why shouldn’t he be punished for it? Not to mention they can always bait out the reversal attempt by not doing the hado follow up, then punish with ultra. This bait tactic is relatively un-risky for shotos, and is already part of the metagame vs the chars like blanka/rog/dictator. It keeps them in check from mindless spamming c.mk xx hado and zoning everyone out.
FK needs a recovery reduction somewhere, this definitely don’t need to be argued. Maybe if the height differences between lk/mk/hk are more pronounced, such that lk is much lower so it recovers much faster.
But when it comes to changing the hitbox on the FK so it hits behind Guile(against crossup attempts), I really don’t think it’s a good idea. IMO it would seriously upset a lot of his even matchups. Between SB, c.hp, and airthrow, it’s already very difficult to get in on guile. The trade-off right now is that once guile is knocked down, he’s much more vulnerable. If this weakness is removed, guile’s defense becomes nearly impossible to crack for some chars(dictator for example).
Instead, if FK gets more invul frames AND recovery reduction, I think the problem should solve itself. FK against meaty crossup attempts would make both players pass right through each other(ie balrog’s wakeup headbutt). If FK has better recovery, then guile would land with negative frames so that the opponent has options to continue pressure. But at the same time guile would now be able to react to those followups, instead of just waiting out the onslaught.
Entire list of changes needs to be submitted to Capcom right about yesterday.
One thing I would disagree with is the slow EX boom. I thought that was a somewhat strong part of guile’s zoning game. After shoto’s get hit with 2 or 3 of them they tend get scared to start throwing projectiles of their own and you can catch a lot of people with it as anti-air. Although the slow EX boom would be very useful if ONLY… and I stress ONLY if you get hit with it you can at least do EX FK/Super/Ultra combo off of it. Also the boom’s would have to hit like half a second apart or something so you would have the chance to charge for said follow ups.
I feel Guile’s boom is fine how it is. Yes it doesn’t do as much damage as others but the trade off is that sick recovery. Get better at doing normals and stop bitching about small stuff like this. The only changes Guile REALLY needs is better FK priority and a way to combo into Ultra. If they do only those two things Guile is upper to top mid tier for sure.
Dude, da fudge are you talking about? I was saying I was disagreeing with gilley’s slow EX boom suggestion and that I would only like it if it could combo and the fact that the fast ex boom is good for guile’s zoning game.
Doesn’t matter you’re still suggesting a change. If you are agreeing with other said posts all you are trying to do is make the character top tier and unbeatable. He needs only 2 changes, everybody needs to learn the character not bitch about so many fixes that just cover up their weak ass game. That’s what the fudge I’m talking about.