Good read Gilley.
Lets just hope they do something in the next one for him.
I agree with this. Upsidedown kick needs a bigger hit box. I mean, it has 16 frame start up and pretty terrible range, i think if had a bigger hitbox it would have uses.
I also think if it left the ground instantly it would be too powerful.
I think sobat should leave the ground slightly faster, maybe a frame earlier
Overall i think guile just needs his fk fixed, so that he doesnt get crossed-up so easily.
Guile is a dinosaur.
I even feel asking for an better ultra is to unreasonable for me.
I do not think he is terrible, either, he just needs a little tweaks.
OMG someone finally said it. I don’t understand why on earth a medium sized guy that has great mobility, is soooo slow at dashing.
In all honesty, remy had this in 3s, and it was amazing. I honestly think if he had this, it would put him in very dangerous territory to rival the top tiers.
I was playing mvc2 today, and man guile is just soo much better in that then he is in this game. The motion for his sonic hurricane is amazing to the possibilities of what he can do.
One more thing i would like to add is to be able to charge partition. Ie. hold back for a charge, dash, then be able to flash kick instantly. Such a great tactic in 3s, and i would welcome this with all the charge characters in this iteration of sf.
first of all… great thread by gilley 
i am also a guile player just for the point if whining from the perspective of another char
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absolutely agree, flash kick has alot of problems atm. the range could even be ok (insted of srk/DP its a “2sec holding move” …)
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same as for 1, at least for sonic boom :). if he has only 2 moves, his moves should at least be at the top of their type. imo his normals do good damage. its more the fact that he has so much 1frame combos (as u mention later)
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agree with same framedata for jab/strong/fierce SB, but i think its ok with ex-SB. seems to be already the fastest shot/FB in the game…
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absolutely agree. funny… i also thought on giving him a SB-like ultra (what does you spam all the time with him ?! ^_^). also its really important to have the opportunity for EVERY CHAR to be able to combo your ultra (main point for tierlists atm … absolutely understandable) or at least to punish specific moves (FBs etc).
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absolutely agree… very good idea with the comboable version
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absolutely agree… i also miss the j.RH of good old times
and his crossing possibilities really suck atm … -
great idea, had the same problem with this punch … u have such a little window of frames to use the strong punch for AA atm… more dice-rollin than useable
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great idea with 3Ks usage, but i think its ok if it stays a “ulility-only” move (to hold for SB an move forward)
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the question is if it would be too good to have another great AA normal and it would “destroy” the strong kick for AA. but youre right, the move generally suxx atm.
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yes he needs more non-1-frame-combos …
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it seems that air-throws have something like invincibility (at least for SF4)… so it could be too strong if you can use it at the beginning of the jump
to discuss the topic of being able to combo your ultra with specialmoves, normals, FADC etc…
i think chars that depend on QCF/QCB-moves are generelly more in advance with their ultras, simply because u can chain those ultras easier/faster than a “2-sec-holder”-ultra, so i could also understand if CAPCOM would change all ultras to 2xQCF-ultras… the only thing that would suck --> i wouldnt be “oldschool” ~~
whoops, double post, sorry
Magneto, Storm, Sentinel, and Cable would all like to have a word with you. 
But you can DHC sonic hurricane into Jill’s Tyrant. I think if he could do that combo in SF4 he would be mid-high at least… but only if you could option to use the rest of your super bar to blow up the tyrant with a rocket launcher.
Not flaming or anything because guile is pretty fun to play in MvC2 with his fun assist-helped sonic boom lockdowns and whatnot. I just think it might be a stretch saying that he fares better in MvC2 compared to SF4.
No, that is not what i meant at all. I just meant he is such a better character overall with the various tools he has. Like sonic hurricane specifically.
Great post
great post indeed. hopefully someone at Capcom will read this
Some people are getting carried away with the buffs in my opinion.
Buffing air throw is not necessary, it is already crazy god like.
I think sonic boom should do 60 dmg across the board (120 for ex), i think jab/strong/fierce boom should have the same recovery as previously suggested. For me boom damage and boom chip composes a large percentage of the damage i deal in a match, a 20% increase in this damage would be very significant.
I think flash kick needs a frame or so more of invulnerability, same with ex.
Ultra needs a better hitbox, and much much more invincibility, it should be viable as anti air.
I think crouch jab should be 3 frames. (this is significant, i know)
Excellent posts. A lot to think about.
FK needing help=yes
More lenient ground combo linking=yes
Better ultra options=yes
I would be happy with beefed up damage/stun or less damage/stun taken. Just seems like Guile got the short end of the stick in too many areas.
game designers have a lot work to do.
great idea offered they have to look it once at least.
A 3 frame c.lp would be pretty wild. Frankly, I don’t think Guile needs this. I would much rather see a riddance of any of those 3 frame c.lps on certain characters like with rog.
I don’t think the ultra needs any more invincibility. I don’t think that would really help Guile much. Gilley mentioned a good point against giving flashkick more invincibility, but I think that one frame on one of them, like the LK version, wouldn’t be game breaking. Having one more frame on EX might be a bit much, but it’s hard to guage without actually testing it. With any more invincibility on EX flashkick you might just be able to go strait through an air fireball. That would be a little too crazy. Overall, I think it would be better to just move the “red” hitbox for flashkick a little bit fartyher forward and move the “blue” hitbox a little bit farther back.
In case your confused, “red/blue hitbox” is sort of how all moves work. In HDremixs’ training mode you can turn an option on to see them, but the red is the move’s attacking hitbox and the blue is your sprite’s hitbox.
I saw what gilley said about the invincibility frames and going through fireballs, then i noticed that sagat can travel through my sonic boom for free with regular tiger uppercut at times…
I think consistency across the board is in order, it’s no more overpowered for guile to do that than it is sagat or ryu
Sagat’s DP has huge horizontal range along with invincibility. Can’t throw fireballs at him from closer than about halfscreen safely.
That said, at least his ultra needs more invincibility. It gets stuffed by jumpins which is retarded (compare to anyone who can AA with ultra).
[quote=Slinkun;7350225
In case your confused, “red/blue hitbox” is sort of how all moves work. In HDremixs’ training mode you can turn an option on to see them, but the red is the move’s attacking hitbox and the blue is your sprite’s hitbox.[/quote]
Yeah, i hope the next sf4 has that option in training mode. If were not going to make c.jab super buff, can we make low forward a frame faster? lol
Like amro said, the lack of invincibility on guiles ultra allows it to trade with tons of shit it shouldn’t. I don’t think increasing its invulnerability is too great a request.
EX flashkicking through an air fire ball would not be a big deal, akuma would still run over guile. If flashkick didn’t require a charge it would be more significant.
Making Guile able to juggle Ultra might be a little too much. But buffing up and changing the properties of FK is a MUST. Capcom needs to make a real anti-air that goes up, not forward. Also give Guile an anti-crossup option, like every other character does. The Fierce Boom should go even faster, does more damage and having knock-back property like Tiger if the opponent gets hit in mid-air. Also Guile’s Ultra is glitchy, many times when I used Ultra while the opponent is still in mid-air above the level of Guile’s head, the Ultra lands with the opponent on the ground blocking. WTF!!?? This needs to be fixed. If they’re in mid-air, Guile’s Ultra hits, period.
I agree with 99% of what Giley wrote.
These are the most vital changes that I think Capcom should make to Guile:
- Reduce FK startup frames and recovery.
- Buff up SB damage, make Fierce SB faster, give it knock-back property.
- Make his Ultra auto-correct so once it hits it lands clean.
- Make him jump quicker like Abel.
- Increase his back dash speed.
I also love ideas about EX SB being able to knock down, c.RH being a quick 2-hit combo so the opponent doesn’t get a free juicy opportunity. But I believe the above 5 things are most vital to Guile’s game. Many times Guile just gets stuffed completely and any attempt to counter fails ridiculously, those 5 things can buff him up good enough and should bring the matchups back to 50/50 where it’s really dependent on the player’s skills and reflexes, not characters’ advantages.
Hmm… I don’t think having ultra as a viable anti air is such a good idea since it does crazy damage (for a free anti air), but flashkick fadc ultra seems more viable.
I think they should just speed up the flashkick’s startup a bit.
I mean it should start in a flash… hence the name.
Other than those 2 changes he seems pretty good.
Oh! and Champ edition low forward please XD if not ST would do.
Guile’s Ultra should auto-combo after first hit connected, like Ken’s Ultra…
Because his current ultra damage output (base on enemy coordinate) is soooo weird