c.mk xx hado = 140 (Can’t knockdown however safe on block due to spacing)
c.mk xx tatsu (hk) = 190 (knockdown however tatsu does not combo if c.mk is hit at the furthest possible range)
c.mk xx srk (hp) = 230 (knockdown however only works up close)
Abel
(This was a plain obvious comparison needed however I was not able to fully do my homework on him so I’m sorry for providing only one combo)
Cr.mp OR cr.mk xx mp Change of Direction xx Second High xx Finish High = 207
With a little math this would be the estimated output for fei (I chose c.mp in the following examples since c.mk does 10 more damage than it’s comparisons while c.mp does 5 less)
Fei
c.mp xx rekka (hp) = 215 (would be easily punishable on block, even with lp your on -4 but it would depend on the spacing if the opponent could punish you harshly)
c.mp xx flamekick (hk) = 225 (would only work up close)
c.mp xx cw (mk) = 175 (I wasn’t sure if this would work but after taking a look at the frame data it could be possible to do mk cw and assuming that all 3 hits land 175 would be the predicted damage output)
So is it really unreasonable to have c.mp/c.mk cancel into a special? I would have to say that c.mk damage output would need to be lowered to 65 from 80 if this was implemented.
what do you guys think?
Also mike about your knockdown comment since this game has quick recovery from a knockdown there really isn’t an adavantage unless your facing a newcomer to the game
i disagree totally. keeping an opponent on the defensive via safe pressure from more rekka pokes, or a crouched fierce, followed by more rekkas is a large part of my game. you dont have to necessarilly score damage to look at a situation as advantageous. and not only do rekkas score a KD, but they also push your opponent into the corner, which is a huge plus for fei.
im not saying that a poke cancelled into a rekka is a terrible idea, im just saying its not completely necessary. a jab rekka is essentially a poke. at 7 frames, it is as fast, or faster than most any move in the game that covers the same ammount of ground.
i know you want it to come from a crouched mk or mp. my argument is that instead of having to move into that range to land your normal, you could use that first jab rekka, which is almost totally safe on block, to confirm the rest of the series from a much safer, and more well spaced position.
IMO, fei already controlls the quarter screen area as is. his crouching mk and mp, and standing fierce are some of the very best normals in the game in terms of hitboxes, range, and execution speed. add to that his jab rekka, long range even if slow overhead, and ultra high priority crouching fierce, and you come up with a dominant close range game. you have a way to deal with every, so called, high priority normal in the game. making more of his already great normals special cancellable would be nice, but its almost overkill.
Thank you for taking the time to pull up that info. . I see nothing wrong with a cr. medium (everyone else can lol). It’s the 1st suggestion i posted. What’s the max were getting? 225? cmon… Cr. mp/mk is solid poke and great for pushing and keeping away. I’m not poker (though I did sleep at a holiday inn). I’m all about maximizing damage. The best way to do that is through comboing. why not add the option to combo when so many other people can? I hope they’re reading …>.>
I agree with most of the points you have made, however I wouldn’t say it would be overkill if this was added to his tools in this game. A good addition but yes not something that is necessary (unless we want to guarantee him being top tier).
I believe what frustrates me at times and what has prompted me (maybe others) of making the suggestion of the cancel is the damage output/health ratio compared to past games. Due to this we are playing the poking game sometimes right down to the final second on a regularly basis.
Maybe I just need a small break from the game :xeye:
Another question has come to mind what are peoples thoughts on the start up of the hk cw?, the pre vs the post championship patch. Should the pre return?
Edit: @ sfrichy
np i have way too much time on my hands lol I’m actually looking forward to going back to uni
I want pre-speed HK CW to come back although if they got rid of the annoying +frames on block on the other CW and made CW an overhead + increased hitbox, I could overlook the current speed
a jab rekka is essentially a poke. at 7 frames, it is as fast, or faster than most any move in the game that covers the same ammount of ground.
I did this last night every time he moved I did a lp rekka worked pretty good stopped some fireballs, poked him across the screen, and kind of trained him to expect it set him up for cross ups.
I got some of it recorded, my vid camera was F!@#king up on me got like 2 1/2 matches recorded, we still have one more to play so unless I can make a huge comeback to 5 I am relegated to the losers bracket
Basically all characters in SF4 suck compared to how they were in previous games so I think it’s perfectly logical to buff all characters excluding Seth who should just be kept as a boss character for obvious reasons.
Honestly, Fei Long is quite alright how he is. At most, I’d ask for his ultra starting on the first hit or, perhaps better, -any- of those hits for it to trigger. If you notice, ken’s ultra is a powerful anti-air, so long as they’re falling at you, you’re landing the entire ultra despite their height if you connect the first hit. It sucks their character down to you and you get the whole thing.
I would love for Fei’s ultra to at least be a short dash, in Abel fashion, goes through fireballs and starts up on first hit. Either that, or make those punches come out much, much faster, fast enough that a focus attack can’t hit you between punches or someone ultra you between punches (both happen rather frequently if you whiff it).
Either than that, wouldn’t mind more things comboing into the rekka’s. But that’s a personal execution issue I have. I absolutely love how Fei plays otherwise, and have devoted myself to maining him after dropping Guile.
You just can’t compare characters between series. This makes as much sense than comparing Ryu with Kyo Kusanagi. Between SF2 and SF4, the mechanics aren’t the same, the approach isn’t the same, the rythm isn’t the same
In HDremix, you could just throw 10 shoryukens in a row and still be a pain to punish
In SF4, you have to think twice before performing any special move because of the high punishability of every move that have special property
I ain’t saying that Fei Long is fine the way he is though (stupid Ultra, shitty Tenshin). But most people in this thread are complaining about what they do not like about Fei and the way they want him to be, regardless of overall balance.
Ryu, Boxer, Sagat, Blanka, Zangief (and Dictator to some extent) have never been more dominant than they are now. These guys have improved leaps and bounds in terms of strengthening their normals and specials (a lot of that has to do with juggle > ultra off DP type moves which is wholly stupid for the first 3 guys mentioned).
Chun is an OK as is Gouki/Akuma, Honda, Dhalsim and Cammy (and Dan); these are guys people who have not been seriously nerfed or strengthened from previous games.
Ken has been put on the back burner as has Fei (people who have been nerfed from most of all their previous incarnations).
Really badly shafted old schoolers include Guile, Rose, Sakura.
So no, not everyone has been nerfed compared to their previous incarnations, it’s just that the top 3 most used guys in tournaments that most of us probably fight against are so much stronger than their previous incarnations I would say 75% due to anti-air juggle > ultra. With ultra being guaranteed at least 1 time per match and the fact that Ryu, Sagat (fireballs) and Boxer (armored dash punches and dash punches that are safe on block) can completely shut down horizontal game with specials forcing a vertical game in which they are assured a juggle > ultra against anyone else (a few match-ups excluded) w/o fireballs.
As far as I’m concerned there are 2 fixes, take out juggle > ultra or include tech air recover making someone invincible on the way down with a few exclusions (like say Ken or Feis or Vipers flame properties attacks)
Ryu does everything worse except for shoryu fadc ultra
Boxer better than in ST are you stupid?
ST Sagat could lock opponents down with tiger shots from full screen and he was great in CvS2 too. only thing he does better now is shoryu fadc and f.hk
Zangief does everything worse except for ex green hand and his lariat is better at beating stuff but worse for avoiding fireballs.
Dic went from all offense to mr.untouchable. Still no doubt he was best in CvS2 even though he was significantly higher in tiers ie top.
Blanka is worse overall but has gotten some new anti fireball stuff. Again CvS2 is best.
Chun, Ken, Honda, Fei, Dhalsim, Cammy (also akuma but doesn’t count) were all better in ST. Akuma is way better in A3 and 3s now he just has broken wakeup with insane teleport and shoryu fadc.
Dan is horrible in all games but now he’s at least got a working shoryu and decent special kicks.
bgf: let’s not even get into guile. He and vega just got unplayable:.
. I see nothing wrong with a cr. medium (everyone else can lol). It’s the 1st suggestion i posted. What’s the max were getting? 225? cmon… Cr. mp/mk is solid poke and great for pushing and keeping away. I’m not poker (though I did sleep at a holiday inn). I’m all about maximizing damage. The best way to do that is through comboing. why not add the option to combo when so many other people can? I hope they’re reading …>.>