SF4 Dash - Fei Long fixes wish list

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
61

Back to topic, I’d like these changes:

-Tenshin=12 frames with 1.0 range. EX becomes 10 frames with 1.25. Or option below.

-Or, Tenshin becomes the back throw. Throw range=.9 regardless of this.

-CW=overhead on last hit and/or EX=+5/+1, HK=+4/+0, MK=+3/-1, LK= +2/-2. Return the old HK CW speed, but change recoil properties on hit so that the Abel/Seth infinite doesn’t work. Increase EX CW invincibility to 1st hit.

-Rekka #1=cancellable, with a +4 frame advantage after perfect dash (on hit) [HP> Rekka> FADC> HP> EX Flame Kick ~~ roughly 400 damage combo for 3 bars, good alternative to Super]. Rekkas do 5 more damage each (155, 165, 175)

-Flame Kick=4 frames to execute, maintain Invul frames; EX=7 frames Invul.

-Overhead=+2/-2

-cr.LP=+5/+2, or s.LK/cl.LK=+5/+2; we only need one reliable way to BnB on low-crouchers.

-Ultra on 1st hit; juggle to 4 hits (change floating properties/attack speed) [This one isn’t necessary if most of the other changes are made]

The main idea here is to open up combo opportunities for Fei by providing more frame traps and openings. Tenshin will still be difficult to pull unless it becomes the back throw (in which case we have a deadly in-fighting tool like Gouken).

With Rekka #1 cancelable, we’re given a better punishment tool since the potential for damage is increased. Combined with improved CW frames, this can really make Fei a deadly in-fighter, with only a long-range weakness. Only reason why I don’t want Rekka #2 to be cancelable is because it would emphasize pot-shots over punishment (2 rekkas confirmed> FADC> 300 damage combo? Too much I think).

By dropping flame kick frames but maintaining/improving invincibility, we get a much higher priority attack which is more easily combo’d into. Without regard to arcs, I think this will help us to better time our AAs and increase the number of opportunities to use Flame kick in a combo.

With the frame improvements on CW (and possible overhead use), the complaints about it’s start-up will be nullified by the sheer advantage given on hit/block. Having a long-range and medium range CW comboable also increases Fei’s deadliness at those ranges by a reasonable amount, without going overboard. By keeping the speeds the same, Fei can still be punished at long range, on whiff, or on anticipation.

62

The last change I don’t think would even be necessary: if the ultra landed on first hit, I’m pretty sure it’d drag the opponent to the ground and complete the whole thing anyways (juggling would be irrelevant with it because it’d connect entirely anyways).

I think it’d be fairly interesting if instead of a set of rekka’s, the beginning of his ultra was an extremely fast, invulnerable, honing CW ^_^. A bit OP perhaps, but it’s a thought to entertain. His mid-range game would be incredible and the fear of having to deal with his ultra on any fireball. It would fly out the last hit would begin the zoom-in animation (first very hard punch followed by the flurry).

Also, I’d really like his command throw to be able to link into his ultra or super. Seth was very positive that that could occur and I have to wonder why that is, he was showcasing the character for Capcom. Was that overlooked or did Capcom design Fei Long with that ability in mind, despite not being able to actually do it.

63

Tenshin fix of some kind and Flame kick priority would be my things to fix same as DP or Headbutt.

64

Well to use your own thinking against you here, Tenshin> Flame Kick> Ultra would be the same; considering it’s done easily we wouldn’t need any adjustments other than the Ultra doing the Bison suck-in. [edit: unless FADC is too much of a chore :lol:]

Also, Tenshin> cr.MK> Super is already possible :slight_smile:

65

:rofl:

66

Sorry Bubblan but Sagat, Ryu and Boxer don’t even need to FADC to juggle > ultra. Boxer is better than he was in ST. He can actually jump very well in 4 and has increased range and priority and well, headbutt is so solid that it beats out Cammy’s DP, really i don’t think you’ve messed with boxer enough to realize this as evidenced by your “stupid” comment. Ryu has faster fireball recovery and larger arena to play with as well (this is a problem that makes all fireballs way to powerful in this game IMO), what, the only thing he’s really missing to make him dominant is sweep > shin shoryuken from CVS (but lp shoryuken > ultra is better) but outside or rolling, I really don’t see how he’s ever been stronger, how about concrete examples instead of insults?

Zangief thanks to input shortcuts can land ultra from ground (albeit he could do that in remix) and his lariat does a lot of damage with stupid range. He still isn’t great against fireballers but he has increased his speed and dominance against non-fireballers and has more speed than ever before and is less vulnerable to low attacks.

Really, Blanka worst? Different timing for wake-up from cast, smaller hitboxes, anti-fireball tactics that he’s never had before…

A lot of what you call “better” in other games has more to do with the smaller arena than actual change to damage potential or attack prioroities. Hit and run game is very viable in SF4 hence the hugely bad matchup with Zangief and Seth.

Hit boxes are also drastically different. I remember back in SF2 WW where I originally honed my skills that any other attack other than HK in the air was useless as they would be out reached and prioritized by it with a few exceptions here and there. EX. in SF4 I could use a J. mkick to beat out a J.HK almost all the time if done at the same time, in SF2 that would not be the case.

67

[media=youtube]Q_E3n0hZZug"[/media]

[media=youtube]5vNFYa-8l7k#t=40s"[/media]

Have you even played ST?

About Zangief I do agree that he dominates melee characters now unlike in ST but I think it’s more because others have lost strong spacing tools. In ST Cammy’s SRK was safe on block so she could just spam that move easily and win. One thing is for sure though, Zangief is not faster in SF4.

ST Ryu’s fireball has faster startup, faster recovery (as fast as EX hadouken if the frame data is right but frame data on hadoukens seems inconsistent) and a bigger hitbox. He could cancel his sweep. His super was much better than his current one with lots of frame advantage after. he could crossup with his j.hk. Overhead was faster and granted a combo afterwards. His shoryu is a lot faster. He’s ranked lower than he is in SF4 and no, his ultra juggles is not better than all of the things above.

68

Let’s not talk about gief, please focus on Fei Long.

(there’s so many things wrong in that quote)

69

Fix the fucking ultra. Since they probably won’t “fix” anything else if they even pay any attention to Fei in Dash, its pointless to lay out a theory fighter prescription. If my ultra hits, it hits, stop bullshitting me.

70

Please stop right there. Don’t talk frame data as it’s different in every SF. SF2 runs on what? 15 frames/second? plus you could vary the speed. Frames are different for each fighting game. SF4 is what? 30 frames/second or 60? Please think relative here, say it takes 40 frames/s for a fireball recovery and a jump in is 30 frames/s then you have an advantage of 33% in one game. But if a fireball is 60 frames/s in another game and a jump in is 70 frames/s then you only have an advantage of 16.67%

Don’t misread frame data like that. Compare apples to apples please.

@ Cydavis. There is nothing wrong with that quote. Let me break it down for you.

Green hand moves fast and covers horizontal space faster than in any SF game before. It lost invulnerability to fireballs though (as in it’s harder to actually use against fireballers which was the main thing it was to be used with when it was originally introduced).

Lariat now hits low/ducking characters with larger hitboxes (in ST the hitbox was shortened after the 1st tick). How is that not an improvement?

71

You… really have no idea what you’re talking about, every post you’ve made is nonsense, but don’t let that stop you!

/popcorn

72
  • Make his EX rekkas easier to punish fireballs and do a bit more damage.
  • Timing on links easier after Tenshin and Chicken wing
  • Less recovery on flamekick
  • Make Ultra connect after the first hit damnit!!!

On another note, I actually think this Fei Long is better than the older one. He has a lot more even or closer match ups compared to the ST Fei.

73

I, like most of you, also would like the ultra to connect after the first hit. I lost a couple matches today while trying to punish an opponent’s wiffed ultra. After the first hit connects I say, “Yes!” After the second is blocked I ask, “Why!?”

And maybe some better stun output?

74

That’s the main reason why I don’t buy all this “of course capcom made the game balanced, they spent alot of time making characters equal”. I call bullshit. If you can’t punish a blocked ultra with your own ultra, something so fundamental, there is no way their trained monkeys could miss such a blaring defect if they were seriously testing for balance. If they let something so obvious slip by, it should go without saying that the fine tweaks in this game have given some characters the proverbial shaft, and of course you become the target of “ur a n00b 09!” for mentioning it. Bruce Lee is rolling in his grave.

75

Make Rekkaken cancellable into Shienkyaku. First of all it would just be fun to throw out a Shienkyaku instead of the 2nd or 3rd rekka. Perhaps make it so that the Shienkyaku juggles on counterhit, so that it’s worthwhile to delay Rekkas, which would step up Fei’s combo options (Rekka, CH Shein, FADC, etc…) Currently there’s no incentive to delay Rekkas since the 2nd and 3rd are guaranteed after the 1st if you mash them out.

Give Fei some mind games!

76

i would like to add the overhead being +3 on hit

77

Just an added thought… would be cool if the move he does at the end of the match after he wins was his focus move.

78

I’ll give Fei Long a shot gun and tiger shots.

79

What about his nun-chucks from SSF2?

80

i lol’ed