And option selects simply because they remove much of the “randomness” from working. The easiest example of this is Akuma using U2 vs Balrog. After a throw, literally the only thing Balrog can do is block. If the Balrog player knows this, then he’s going to be expecting another throw on wakeup. That’s where c.short, s.short+s.roundhouse come in. Even if nothing ends up happening, you were still controlling the pace for all of that time.
you people are very intelligent and informative;
i must say, what i like about akuma is his combo-ability where the other shotos lack… to me, this means standing roundhouse and air fireball, typically, as engagement moves between a spaced distance, as they can be combined if they manage to connect. whereas ryu and ken for example, pretty much just throw fireballs at you to get you to react so they can SRK you on jump in. their only combo-potential move between the distance is really cr:mk:, which is typically unlikely to combo into an FADC+
im not too sure how to deal with a ken/ryu/sagat just fireballing you from a distance until you do something as it’s a pretty effective turtle. in watching high level matches between these match ups, the akuma players seem to know this, so they’re not playing very aggressively. that is, with repeated jump-in assaults, but rather, answering with their own distance fireballs. it seems that attempting to focus through fireballs close enough to connect a hit is a risky idea as any of these fireballs could be an EX. the one who attempts the close-range attack is punished for it.
blah
one method i really like with akuma, is a long range air fireball to prevent a SRK, followed by an EX DF-something, a grounded :lp: fireball also works for this, as they will have to react to it in some way allowing you to catch them with an EX DF in mid animation… unfortunately though, i think it’s good practice to not EX DF as it spends meter that could otherwise be used in a FADC combo
Maybe the first time I’ll use the Ignore button lol
well, as long as you do it spiritedly with faith in yourself and all that you stand for… it is these fractions of space along a page that simply can not be tolerated as they are unworthy of your eyes. to simply overlook them, or not reply if you find them uninteresting, does not do yourself justice. you deserve to be treated properly. and i myself am sadly incapable of doing so.
at the very least, for saying so you should be thought of as a reasonable individual, beyond that which you declare unreasonable
question… when is it “safe” to jump in on a shoto? after a blocked cr.mk xx fireball perhaps since they are in block stun?
rules:
never throw a mid-range fireball,
always crouch unless attacking, advancing, or blocking a jump-in,
never sweep unless certain it will connect,
do not use any normals or specials after you input a blockstring, throw is the only acceptable attack here
any other rules vs shotos?
Ste, I must say, after my and others’ overly aggresive personal assaults on you, you kept your composure like an adult, I can only have respect for that. However, PLEASE help in keeping this forums organized by asking these questions in the appropriate thread. In this case the quick Q&A thread.
k, sorry for the pollution, as overlapping topics of subject matter tends to confuse me, i must not be seeing things clearly
Mid range fireballs are fine, provided you’re not predicable with them. For an example of this, watch some match videos of Alex Valle’s Ryu. I really admire his projectile use - he has no patterns and tends to catch people off guard with his projectiles quite often. Because of this, people become hesitant at trying to apply reads to him. After watching some Valle matches, switch to another shoto player’s match videos and observe the difference - its pretty striking. Valle’s projectile style is something I am trying to pull into my game as I’m always looking for unique ways to use them. On the whole I feel many folks use of projectiles isn’t as tricky as it perhaps could be and they remain very underrated in this game.
Conversely, watch Momochi’s projectile use with Akuma. He NEVER throws a bad projectile, ever. How he achieves this is worth paying attention to. His approach to self preservation applies to all aspects of his game (Momochi rarely makes mistakes or puts himself at risk) and is definitely worth taking on board.
Good projectile use requires a good feel for spacing, reading your opponent and abstaining from patterns and predictability. With Akuma you also need to understand your vulnerability heights for air fireball use and using EX tk balls to negate any frame disadvantage on approach and on hard knockdowns. Keep in mind Akuma’s varied lp, mp, hp and EX readball options and they can really mess with people’s expectations and timing when you start mixing the strengths up. Not only do they have varied recovery times, strengths and stun values, but the absorption properties (1, 2 or 3 absorbs) can seriously mess with what people are expecting. Red ball = 3 hits, so can they jump on impact? Not always. Sometimes you can throw a lp redball, recover in time and throw a mp or hp regular ball and they’ll land right on it (if they see it as an opportunity to advance on you via jumping over it) for assuming the previous redball was a 3 hitter and thus packed with more recovery. ‘Rules’ for projectile use don’t exist provided you abstain from predictability.
Moving into a crouch position after blocking a jump-in is natural, though if you’re playing someone who really understands your game, expect the occasional overheads to get thrown around to mix things up. Also keep in mind that crouching blocking invokes more pushback whereas stand blocking is slightly less. If you want to maintain your ground, stand blocking is ideal, but obviously within c.mk/c.hk range you want to avoid it.
The sweep thing varies based on the matchup. Its fine to attempt to poke with c.hk as part of your spacing and footsies game as a lot of Akuma’s options stem from applying c.hk and you’re not going to connect every attempt you stick out there. It’ll either whiff, connect or be blocked. Some characters are spacing and meter (and Ultra) dependant on their punish options against Akuma so sometimes a whiffed or blocked c.hk is perfectly fine. Obviously you’ll be more conservative when Ryu gains full Super or Chun has her Ultra stocked for example. Remember you can turn the tide against their response (sometimes) with a buffered Ultra in return though its important to understand your opponent’s option on a blocked or whiffed sweep. Sometimes they really have nothing, sometimes you’ll get wrecked.
Not too sure what you mean by your options after a string, but you certainly have more options than just a throw. Any scenario after a block string means you’re in position to crack 'em open with some frame traps, step back and poke/sweep, jump towards and cross tatsu or even stagger some normals and demon flip into a grab or even whiff a palm in front of them to bait something out. You can also let loose with a focus attack to counterhit crumple a normal they may stick out. If you’re feeling really sassy you can f.mp overhead cancel to cross the distance and snatch them with your super, or perhaps neutral jump and drop some low to the ground EX air balls on them when they attempt to sweep you. There’s more options than just throws available to you, especially for Akuma. His strength is the sheer volume of options he has available to him and you should be exploiting and exploring them all.
ok thanks for the info gamogo. my point on not attacking after a blockstring is that it simply is not “safe”, so it’s probably wise to pause before attempting something else, as your opponent could very well be mashing a reversal SRK while you’re jabs are being blocked, alternatively, this is when grabs can also be a good idea if you do it quickly, being within jabbing range. of course your opponent would have to not be mashing a reversal DP in this case. but the point is, if it’s any other sort of attack, it’s either going to be blocked or hammered with a DP. unless you’re going to try a jump on the other side i think, as this is one of the ideal times to cross-up, if he is just poking there.
lately, against chars that you can’t sweep after tatsu, i have not been using SRK at all with akuma, but jabbing instead to get a reset… not sure how many people agree with me here, but i find this to be much more interesting than ending with a SRK, providing you can continue it into another combo of course.
i think the sequence of hit-confirming attacks is very important with akuma… as if you do a jump-in attack, ideally, you want to hit confirm with a jab, as you can then link that into a cs:HP:. many players however seem to regularly begin with a cr:lk: allowing you to hit blocking opponents that are not crouching, but the overall damage is significantly reduced as you will then have to add a :lp: before you can combo into something, and this :lp: will typically be followed by cr:mp: … so if you’re going to cr:lk: first, i think may be best for your next input to be cs:mp: .but then again this is not safe if the cr:lk: was blocked, so it should be a cr:lp: instead to hit confirm. since it is best for the first attack to be a :lp: if that is blocked the next should be a cr:lk: … although im not too sure what to do here if that connects since you will then have to follow that with another :lp: which pushes you too far away from your opponent to then cr:mp: xx tatsu/fireball … so i suppose it will have to be a tatsu after the :lp: or a :mk: then if you want to xx fireball
i think that on empty jump-ins on wake up, it’s best for the first input to be the os grab tech to follow that with a cr:lp: in case the cr:lk: connects.
i think i need to work on these empty jump ins into a combo after a sweep becoming a part of my game as they are a safe way of starting a nice combo, landing a DFDK after a sweep would be nice of course but it’s simply not a safe move. so if you’re going to jump, it should either be a palm wiff, empty jump, or a j:hp: or :hk: although really i dont know if those attacks are even safe from a reversal, and if they are safe, if they will even connect, as they could end up on the ground before the opponent even wakes up to vulnerable frames
after a sweep, should it definitely be a jump-in move or can you also effectively just walk right next to them and crouch to begin the hit confirming as soon as they wake up?
as i’ve said, it would be nice to consistently land j:mk: cross-ups on wake-up after a sweep, but i’m simply not good at timing that correctly.
on wake-up, is it common for the os grab tech to be immediately followed by a jab-sweep os in case they try to back dash on wake up? or does block stun prevent them from being able to back dash after the blocked :lk: ?
most importantly, what are akuma’s safe mix up options after a sweep?
it seems that dive kick is, stuffing reversals
empty jump
and a j.HK, i tried this however and the j.:HK: lands on the ground before vulnerable wake up frames
the same is true for the cross up j.:mk: from a closest range sweep, so connecting these is a bit tricky
so what is safe on an empty jump? can’t an os grab tech be stuffed by a reversal DP on wakeup?
i discovered that cr:lk: can be linked into cs:hp: , it’s a rather difficult link though, and probably has no use, as 2 light hits are required to hit confirm, if the j attack lands then this is unnecessary.
anyway, sorry for the noob questions, strings… i will delete that last post entirely if you really want me to
question… what are akuma’s best options on crouching opponents? and i mean it confirming fist, so cr.HP to get them standing is not possible…
so far it seems that a cr.:lk: cr:lp: cr:mp: xx EX tatsu is his best option, as this is 223 damage, 233 starting with a :lp: cr:lk: cr:lp: cr:mp: xx gohaduken FADC cr:hk: gives you something like 197 damage
cr.lk cr.lp srk fadc (first hit) cl.mp xx hk tatsu.
[SIZE=3]That’s a 1 frame link after the FADC though.
That might be the optimal, but it’s definitely not the most realistic or reliable, especially online. I thought the BnB was cr.short, cr.jab, cr.strong and either EX tatsu or EX fireball. If you have the meter then it would just be a fireball after the strong, FADC into cs.fierce xxx fireball or shoryu.
And does cr.short not link into cs.jab? Because cs.jab links into cr.fierce. I don’t do the jab though on most characters anyway. I’m doing the crouch tech for my first, cs.short + s.roundhouse for the second hit.
now what is the purpose or cs:lk: + s:hk: for the second hit?
i think that ideally, it would be nice to always confirm into as :lk: :lp: fs:hk: …ect, but it seems that this is only possible against the few roundhouse loopable opponents, and it is a tight link anyway… but if you’re doing the s:hk: as your second hit, its going to be a close :hk: … so i’m uncertain
is back-dashing punishable with a :hk: tatsu? just wondering how effective a tatsu :hp: reset xx EX demon flip EX fireball could be
question: on the first vulnerable frame(s) of wake up, is it safe to poke at it with a crouch tech or do you run the risk of getting smashed with a reversal DP in doing so?
Option select their backdash
The roundhouse loop has been gone since Vanilla. S.lp is +6, s.hk is 7 frames. However, s.lp -> cr.hk is very useful even though it’s a 1 frame link.
This doesn’t matter because the roundhouse loop is gone.
First of all, that’s two meters for an obvious reset. Second of all, yes, you can punish a backdash up close with a hk tatsu. Third, no one is going to backdash there because the fireball will catch them anyway.
You can get uppercutted. People can always get an uppercut on wakeup.
ok, so DP is only stuffable on wakeup from a jumping attack… so poking at a wake up is an entirely risky thing to do. is this something the high level players do on an empty jump in to wake up simply as a risk they are willing to take to get a combo?
is a neutral jump attack a better anti air than a cr.HP? is it also a reliable way of getting a neutral jump combo or does it have a high risk of landing onto a DP?
are cross-up attempts punishable?
like if you focus dash away into a sweep or something, or is a focus dash away to an immediate jump-in attack optimal?
it would be nice to be able to reliably cross-up every sweep knock down, jumping early is the only safe option though, as jumping late, ever so slightly for the sake of not landing top early to connect, is punishable, and occurs often
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No…Certain DP’s can be stuffed, but they rely on very specific setups that are timed to hit them during their vulnerable frames. For example, Dash x 2, j.HK can be beaten by any of Ryu’s SRK options because it starts up in 3 frames, which means the DP will hit you while your hitbox is still exposed in the air. After the AE 2012 nerf to fwd throw, you can’t even empty jump Ryu after Dash x 2 to be safe from reversal SRK, emtpy jumps after fwd throw work against any character that has a reversal with 6fs startup and wakes up normally. Or 5fs startup and wakes up 1 fs slower. Or 4fs startup with 2fs slower wakeup (after fwd throw). But don’t confuse an empty jump with a “safe” jump. An empty jump is a gamble move where you’re hoping your opponent tries to reversal you so you can block it and punish. He he backdashes or throws when you land, you’re screwed. A Safe jump is actually an attack that’s completely safe against his/her reversal or FORCES the opponent to block or eat the jumping attack MEATY which sets you up for a combo follow up. Against Cammy for example, if you do fwd throw, Dash x 2, j.HK: if she does reversal Spike, you block and punish her on the way down. If she waits for you to land and throw, your j.HK will hit and force her to block. If she jumps, you hit her. Etc…
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In general, Akuma’s Air-to-Air options are not that great. It’s better to stay ground and either SRK or cr.HP as an AA option.
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Yes, cross-ups can usually be punished by delayed DP’s that auto-correct. It’s still a good idea to attempt it at first. If your opponent catches you with a delayed DP, then try something else.
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Huh??
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Double-Huh???..
i mean focus dashing to escape a cross-up…
so what DPs can be stuffed from a cr:lk: poke on wake up? it seems that to be able to do something like this effectively on wake up is extremely important to your level of play. as your opponent has no choice in this case but to block, ive seen tokido do many empty or palm wiff jumps after sweep into this cr:lk: + combo, which is why i question it’s safety. apart from that, the opportunity for this standard hit confirm combo doesn’t occur much… as jump-in attacks are better starting with cr:lp: cs:hp: ++ for higher damage.
Umh… Don’t take this the wrong way, but I have to ask you: are you trolling??
You should know very well that you CAN’T stuff a DP with a grounded normal like that. Most DP’s in this game have invuln frames at the start which makes it impossible to stuff. Add to that the fact that all shotos (Ryu, Ken, Akuma and Dan) DP’s have 3fs startup (with a few exceptions).
The reason Tokido does that is because his opponents respect him. They know that he usually has an option select or two behind nearly every move he does so they tend to not touch any buttons. You won’t find that same ‘courtesy’ playing random scrubs online…
Still, if you can condition your opponent to block or not press any buttons, you can get away with these things sometimes.
ok i was doing some sweep into command dive and DFDK tests against various characters, let me know what your opinions are, and if you concur with these…
DFDK after sweep is very effective against ryu and ken (which you can’t sweep after tatsu), not against seth or oni, it trades with cammy and evil ryu, so against these you really dont want to dive kick, but safe jump instead, command dive works just as well as dfdk but is not the better option as it can not be comboed with a :hp:
more important than which characters can be swept after a tatsu, is which of those characters can have their reversals after this sweep stuffed with a DFDK or command dive… which narrows the list further…
ok course safe jumps are an important alternative but they are about baiting the reversal DP, it’s simply one less option to not be able to DFDK your opponent on wake up
no, i simply wasn’t aware if there were any vulnerable frames on wake up reversals without blocking
i suppose tokido has it confirmed that by the time he lands on the ground with a safe jump or empty jump, that if they didn’t reversal, it’s safe to start hit confirming… so its a matter of knowing as soon as possible whether or not a reversal is attempted
does anyone else here hate playing against guile? of all the turtlers he is the most annoying. just throwing sonic booms waiting for you to jump in to his flash kick, so the only way to deal with him is to jump in to avoid the sonic booms, while close enough to bait a flash kick without getting hit by it, and if they play correctly, theyre not going to flash kick at poking unless it’s a blocked sweep. you’re not going to get close enough to him for any other normals unless he makes a mistake, air fireballs are also not a good idea… it’s a rather lame match up i must say.,