SF4 Akuma Combos

[Kikuichimonji]

and what about cross-ups after sweep?

Air hk tatsu.

am i right that akuma has no use for MP.SRK, LP and MP.Shaku, MK.Tatsu

lp/mp shaku looks like hp but recovers faster. Useful for not getting hit by jump-ins. MP srk does slightly more damage than hp srk when it connects as an anti-air if hp srk would only hit twice. You can use mk tatsu in FADC combos, not sure if it works with hk tatsu.

is it a given now that akumas best ultra option is DA combo’d off a HP?

Define ‘ultra option.’ Demon punishes lots of shit and does ridiculous damage. Demon Armageddon’s useful but it doesn’t have the utility of Raging Demon.

i must say, cr.HK xx raging demon is a beautiful ultra setup if the cr.HK is blocked, as the opponent naturally will then try to attack the blocked sweep from frame advantage, victim to the raging demon. i’ve seen Tokido do this,

It’s a gimmick.

is cr.MP, cs.HP considered difficult to do?

Lol no. Learn to plink, it’s a 2 frame link.

i see no advantage to a sweep after tatsu rather than a srk, you’re sacrificing like 100 damage there for not much reward…

It’s not 100 damage unless you’re doing a short combo like cl.hp xx lk tatsu, hp srk.

you can’t DFDK in because that will be stuffed by a reversal

There are character specific setups to stuff reversals with demon flip dive kick.

same with cross up attempts

Crossup tatsu beats most shoryukens when timed properly. And crossup tatsu leads to… another sweep!

the only thing you can do is bait a dp with a safe jump, which is not as easy to do as a simple input, and the best way to avoid that is to not do a dp reversal, but just an anti air normal… so theres nothing special about getting a knock down, is tthere,

Akuma’s vortex got nerfed pretty bad when demon flip palm stopped being an overhead but you still have plenty of good oki options between throws, j.hk, crossup tatsu, lows, and the occasional f.mp.

When you end with a SRK, your opponent quick rises from you at a significant distance. if you demon flip or jump, you get hit by a uppercut/anti-air. The best you can do for oki is throw a fireball or dash up and do a gimmicky throw. You can’t even walk up and do a full blockstring.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but you’re just plain wrong about SRK being better than sweep. All the top players use sweep when possible.

[ste]

There are character specific setups to stuff reversals with demon flip dive kick.

ok, so it’s very questionable, it’s not simply yes or no, but requires a narrow path, which means no.

Air hk tatsu.

when i say cross-up, i mean a j.MK+, not something that ends in one more hit.

It’s a gimmick.

point being?

Lol no. Learn to plink, it’s a 2 frame link.

uhhh… when you cr.lp, cs.hp… this is not a 2 frame link, you have to wait slightly before inputting the hp. with cr.mp you have to wait even longer for the animation to finish, and waiting too long of course means you wont be able to connect at close range even if it manages to combo.i’m guessing that cr.mp,cs.hp is only useful for the absolute shortest akuma combos due to damage scaling, so if you’re going to fadc at all, then don’t use it, correct? nor is a cr.mp something you can hit confirm with after a jump in attack, so its not very useful

[Kikuichimonji]

ok, so it’s very questionable, it’s not simply yes or no, but requires a narrow path, which means no.

What the fuck? People who actually want to get good at the game and practice will know character specific setups because the reward is huge. It’s not even that difficult.

when i say cross-up, i mean a j.MK+, not something that ends in one more hit.

Stop thinking in hits, think in terms of damage and positioning. Crossup tatsu is ten times better than crossup j.mk because the tatsu changes your jump trajectory. Instead of ending up in front, you end up behind. Instead of losing to a reversal DP, you stuff the DP. You know what tatsu does? It makes people extremely uncertain about which way to block. They stop blocking non-crossups because they predict tatsus. They stop uppercutting your jump ins on wakeup because they don’t want to get knocked down again. They get hit by demon flip throw because they’re so focused on blocking left or right that they don’t realize it’s a demon flip. And crossup tatsu is very safe unless your opponent knows you’re doing it and does a well-timed autocorrect reversal.

[quote="ste, post: 6716749, member: 60327"point being?[/quote]
If you do it predictably you’re going to lose.

uhhh… when you cr.lp, cs.hp… this is not a 2 frame link, you have to wait slightly before inputting the hp. with cr.mp you have to wait even longer for the animation to finish, and waiting too long of course means you wont be able to connect at close range even if it manages to combo.

Wow you don’t even know what’s going on. First of all, cr.lp -> cl.hp and cr.mp -> cl.hp are both 2 frame links. Because I actually know how to use the internet, here’s the frame data proving it. You are sometimes too far to link cl.hp, yes, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a 2 frame link. You’re over-complicating things.

i’m guessing that cr.mp,cs.hp is only useful for the absolute shortest akuma combos due to damage scaling, so if you’re going to fadc at all, then don’t use it, correct?

It’s still worth doing in combos that use 2 bars but mid-screen off say a cr.mp xx hadouken FADC you’re too far to connect cr.mp, cl.hp. Damage scaling is not as severe as you think it is. Off a crumple or stun, cr.mp -> cl.hp is the best combo unless you go for spacing specific crumple -> backdash -> s.hk -> cl.hp.

nor is a cr.mp something you can hit confirm with after a jump in attack, so its not very useful

It’s useful off a deep demon flip dive kick but off a crossup or whatever cr.lp -> cl.hp is best for consistency.

[ste]

um, idk man, when you say 2 frame links do you mean::

frame 1: input cr.lp/mp
frame 2: input hp

as i have been doing cr.lp, hp without plinking, if it is a 2 frame link then not plinking shouldn’t work, correct? i’m not saying you’re wrong, just questioning.

krossup tatsu vs krossup mk… i am talking in terms of damage… hk tatsu, sweep or… j.mk, hp xx fireball fadc hp xx fireball fadc, hp xx tatsu, shoryuken / sweep …

i’m just wondering how safe or unsafe it is to attempt a j.mk after a sweep. i think that to be able to master THAT timing on wake ups is highly lucrative to your gameplay,

to actually stuff reversals with a DFDK requires very precise timing, as you need to catch the opponent on like the first frames of wakup before the reversal has damaging frames… this concept isn’t simply achieved by knowing the method.

there needs to be a chart of which methods work on which characters to keep track of this, rather than just random disorganization you have to search through,

…

ok, nothing is mentioned on the forums about sweep options per character on wakeup, so does an immediate LK.DFDK stuff reversals? who knows. i suppose in this instance, the safest option is a LK.Palm wiff, or a HK.DFDK to bait a reversal, MK doesnt leave you in safe distance really

so these are your options after a sweep, and the tatsu krossup. is a dfdk or df throw safe here? no, it’s a gamble, meaning it’s not a good idea to go for the utkd for those options.

[Kikuichimonji]

um, idk man, when you say 2 frame links do you mean::

frame 1: input cr.lp/mp
frame 2: input hp

2 frame link means you have a window of 2 frames to do it in. As in, you can either hit it the frame after cr.mp finishes or the second frame after cr.mp frames. You do it after the recovery of the move. Technically, that’s after the move goes through startup, active frames, impact freeze, and recovery. It’s like 26 frames after you originally hit cr.mp but that doesn’t matter.

as i have been doing cr.lp, hp without plinking, if it is a 2 frame link then not plinking shouldn’t work, correct? i’m not saying you’re wrong, just questioning.

plinking just takes your input and doubles it across 2 frames. It works for any difficulty link.

krossup tatsu vs krossup mk… i am talking in terms of damage… hk tatsu, sweep or… j.mk, hp xx fireball fadc hp xx fireball fadc, hp xx tatsu, shoryuken / sweep …

i’m just wondering how safe or unsafe it is to attempt a j.mk after a sweep. i think that to be able to master THAT timing on wake ups is highly lucrative to your gameplay,

It’s useful but better players will usually block a j.mk just because it’s obvious. The damage doesn’t matter because they’ll block it. You can use Akuma’s df.mk to set up fake crossups when they start blocking j.mk, but at that point there are better mixups you could be doing.

Your combo off the crossup makes you lose momentum if they block, which is why people put in a cr.lp before s.hp. If they block you can still frame trap or throw. Also raw s.hp xx fireball can actually be punished by stuff like Ryu’s super.

Also the last FADC only adds minimal damage, it’s not worth it in nearly every situation. Save the meter for DP fadc or something.

You are also missing the point that the opponent will start blocking crossup automatically against crossup tatsu, which leads to them eating a silly combo like j.hk -> cr.mp -> cl.hp xx lk tatsu -> sweep.

to actually stuff reversals with a DFDK requires very precise timing, as you need to catch the opponent on like the first frames of wakup before the reversal has damaging frames… this concept isn’t simply achieved by knowing the method.

It’s not about frames, it’s about angles. hk DFDK hits at such an extreme angle such that it’s almost crossup, at an angle that most attacks simply aren’t designed to counter. Because their reversal has invincibility, your dive kick whiffs for a few frames, but then it hits them after that.

Also everything in fighting games requires precise timing. A 2 frame link requires you to hit a button within a 1/30th of a second window.

I’m not saying if you can’t do it you’re a scrub. I’m just saying it’s totally practical and lets Akuma do something he otherwise can’t do - maintain safe offense after a knockdown.

[ste]

2 frame link means you have a window of 2 frames to do it in. As in, you can either hit it the frame after cr.mp finishes or the second frame after cr.mp frames. You do it after the recovery of the move. Technically, that’s after the move goes through startup, active frames, impact freeze, and recovery. It’s like 26 frames after you originally hit cr.mp but that doesn’t matter.

bah, ok, i clearly misunderstood you

so if you’re out of range for a lk.tatsu to connect, cr.mp, cr.mp, cr.hk may be the optimal combo… quite nasty if you can do the cr.mp, cr.hk link consistently. i think that the more sweep knockdowns you get in a single match, the more humiliating your win is… providing that you connect into a fast sweep on virtually every hit confirm

i seem to not be able to block cross ups, ever. regardless of which way i block. videos even demonstrate ways of escaping cross ups and directional blocking isn’t one of them, but idk. focus-dashing is one way… but i think just dashing itself would be effective enough, as it has invincibility frames. i think that vs players like akuma for example, theres no point in going for the sweep knock down, as he can just teleport out on wake up,

i think akumas most important link to master is fireball fadc s.HK, as that’s adding significant damage to an otherwise weaker combo, and can be linked to a cs.HP, such as the common cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.mp xx fireball fadc, cr.mp xx tatsu +

i don’t see many high level players using that link though

[Kikuichimonji]

bah, ok, i clearly misunderstood you

so if you’re out of range for a lk.tatsu to connect, cr.mp, cr.mp, cr.hk may be the optimal combo… quite nasty if you can do the cr.mp, cr.hk link consistently. i think that the more sweep knockdowns you get in a single match, the more humiliating your win is… providing that you connect into a fast sweep on virtually every hit confirm

cr.mp cr.hk doesn’t combo without counter-hit. Akuma really needs meter to do a good hit-confirm on a crouching character. What Daigo does with Akuma is cr.lk cr.lp hp srk fadc (second hit) cl.mp xx hk tatsu. Works on crouchers.

i seem to not be able to block cross ups, ever. regardless of which way i block.

There are unblockables in the game, yes. But not all crossups are unblockable. Most aren’t.

videos even demonstrate ways of escaping cross ups and directional blocking isn’t one of them, but idk. focus-dashing is one way… but i think just dashing itself would be effective enough, as it has invincibility frames.

You can punish its recovery.

i think that vs players like akuma for example, theres no point in going for the sweep knock down, as he can just teleport out on wake up,

You can Raging Demon his teleport

i think akumas most important link to master is fireball fadc s.HK, as that’s adding significant damage to an otherwise weaker combo, and can be linked to a cs.HP, such as the common cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.mp xx fireball fadc, cr.mp xx tatsu +

i don’t see many high level players using that link though

That’s because its spacing specific to combo into s.hk ever since they added a frame of startup to s.hk (making it 7 frames).

[ste]

You can Raging Demon his teleport

it would be amusing to see an attempt at that get hit with the teleport cancelled into a Demon Armageddon

What Daigo does with Akuma is cr.lk cr.lp hp srk fadc (second hit) cl.mp xx hk tatsu. Works on crouchers.

unusual akuma combo, interesting… so you can only catch a falling char with a mp from a srk fadc if they were crouching?

[Kikuichimonji]

unusual akuma combo, interesting… so you can only catch a falling char with a mp from a srk fadc if they were crouching?

No, it doesn’t juggle until the last hit. It’s a grounded combo.

[VeNOM2099]

And crossup tatsu is very safe unless your opponent knows you’re doing it and does a well-timed autocorrect reversal.

Just wanted to touch up on this: Cross-up tatsu isn’t very safe against DP characters like Ryu/Ken. They can stuff it with a DELAYED SRK (not reversal timed) that auto-corrects. I believe they can also cr.MK to get under it or FADC dash from it since Air-Tatsu isn’t Armour breaking…

[ste]

No, it doesn’t juggle until the last hit. It’s a grounded combo.

2 hits from the srk is still grounded? i thought it was just 1

i’m wondering now if grounded srk fadcs can replace fireball fadcs, and if they do more damage…

[Nevermore]

You’ve asked a lot of questions that are easily answered in training mode.

[Gamogo]

2 hits from the srk is still grounded? i thought it was just 1

i’m wondering now if grounded srk fadcs can replace fireball fadcs, and if they do more damage…

+10 dmg. Fireballs do 60 dmg.

DPs:

mp = 7060
hp = 7050*30

Also, tatsu (initial hit for mk and hk) = 80.

Kinda explains Daigo’s FADC hk tatsu motivation (+20 dmg over balls, forces stand) but its a right shit to land consistently.

Stick to FADC balls. Easier, more reliable.

[LoyalSol]

It’s a gimmick…

Actually I’ll tell you it isn’t a gimmick. A lot of people love pressing buttons after your sweep and if you know they are going to do it then it is an excellent option to punish. It requires some prior reads on the opponents play style, but it is perfectly legit. Risky? Yes. Gimmick? No.

[Shabrout]

No, it doesn’t juggle until the last hit. It’s a grounded combo.

actualy DP launch opponent on second hit. I have no idea how Daigo could follow a 1 hit day Shoryu with any c:mp: even jab cause I tried like an hour without success. The dash recovery is fucking huge.

[Shabrout]

Why they couldn’t fix the ex tatsu glitch, I was training to punish Spiral arrow on block with cr:mp: cr:mp: cr:mk: xx fireball FADC st:hk: cr:mk: xx ex tatsu and Cammy just end by your side ready to counter you after the tatsu…

… and yes, I could use better combo, but this one is badass ^^

[Nevermore]

No, it doesn’t juggle until the last hit. It’s a grounded combo.

It juggles if you let it go beyond the first hit.

actualy DP launch opponent on second hit. I have no idea how Daigo could follow a 1 hit day Shoryu with any c:mp: even jab cause I tried like an hour without success. The dash recovery is fucking huge.

He’s doing a standing strong, not crouching. It’s not that bad. The hardest part is recognizing the hit confirms. Fireball confirms are so much easier.

[ste]

ok i tested this. it’s not 2 hits, it’s 1 to send in the air, so its not grounded if its 2, one hit does 70 damage, one fireball does 60 damage, and you can follow a fireball with a HP, this you can barely get a mp… conclusion: grounded SRK fadc is stupid.

[ste]

[media=youtube]b4ql5aN64rk[/media]

what do you guys this of this relative to akuma in sf4?

[LoyalSol]

Why they couldn’t fix the ex tatsu glitch, I was training to punish Spiral arrow on block with cr:mp: cr:mp: cr:mk: xx fireball FADC st:hk: cr:mk: xx ex tatsu and Cammy just end by your side ready to counter you after the tatsu…

… and yes, I could use better combo, but this one is badass ^^

You can just s.:hp: >BnB