Noobs you say? It’s not just noobs that post their view on what is REAL SF. They all get up and post their ‘factual’ breakdown of why SF2 or SF3 is the most godly shit out there.
But I doubt you’d see people arguing that Ping Pong is more deep than Tennis or vice versa, it’s basically the same deal that people have been posting for years.
I only play 3rd strike to piss people off. Cause Chun is a whore.
Dr. Deelite reminds me to tread carefully, regarding comments about which games are the most broken. I’m a 3S player and I do NOT know how to play Marvel, because of the high learning curve involved in understanding the fundamentals and the TONS of hours I’d need to work on my execution in that game. I often wondered if 3S was a more “balanced” fighter, but the top tier usually does seem to win all the tourneys these days in Japan (where the comp is overall best, as we all know). All games inevitably seem to possess broken traits and hopefully that makes each game interesting w/o ruining it! In other words, hopefully someone will find something later that counters the presumed broken feature so the game continues to evolve, rather than become stagnant and predictable in terms of tier/tourney outcomes.
I play 3S MORE than any FG because it has a gentle learning curve and because ppl still seem to find cool new stuff. I hate Yun sometimes but until somewhat recently, a new “broken Genei-Jin” combo was found. I asked Mike Z. why he plays both 3S and MvC2 and he said in 3S, they still find cool new tricks every now and then, and I forget exactly what he said for Marvel, but that for him it’s just plain fun for him because he wants to change ppls’ basic perspectives on what it can offer, and I think because it’s a game where he really shines with his low-tier teams; due to his superior execution skills. (He’s actually more into AC right now cos he’s tired of Capcom games to a large extent.)
I used to prefer CvS2 but I’m HORRIBLE at that game, and I admit MvC2 has too much to learn and it’s REALLY hard to “catch up” with the scene if I want to compete. I wish I knew how some players had the dexterity and timing to master all the Magneto infinites and projectile traps in the game.
I understand how some players will hate the parry system, but I think it’s MUCH more refined in 3S than the previous 2 SF3 games because you can’t parry nearly all attacks with 1 universal, directional tap. The game forces you to rely on reflexes and random “luck” or “educated guessing” as part of its mixups/mindgames. Would a no-parry option be better: like in the system-direction feature from DC? (I forget if it’s offered on PS2/XB.)
I would play ALL the Capcom fighters if I didn’t find many of the flashy ones so intimidating. Also, FFA in L.A. over here is ALMOST ALL 3S players, so I don’t have much choice for comp, of course lol.
I think I personally have just grown accustomed to the timing and speed of 3S that limits my ability to play CvS2 or MvC2 on a competitive level. I ALSO feel a need to perform better in 3S itself before I am ready to switch to another FG; esp. a non-Capcom game such as AC or MB.
the freedom of movement you find so difficult to master in mvc2 is the main reason i love the game. i agree that giving characters so much freedom of movement coupled with variables such as assists, dhc’s, and infinites can be daunting to learn at first, but it is not as if you are training to beat justin wong next weekend. to stay on topic, this is one of the main things i dislike about 3s; the clunky feel of character movement. to a marvel player, it literally feels like all of the characters have 50lb lead weights tied to each arm/leg, though that is just my opinion… im sure others know what i am talking about. furthermore, the steep learning curve in mvc2 makes it that much more satisfying to play. i feel of all the games in the usa, mvc2(3s being next in line) demands the most personal dedication to play simply because the player base is so large and the game has been dissected to an insane level… sometimes to the detriment of the actual lives of the player. if anyone disagrees, tell me an example of a 3s player who has been criticized for “losing at life” based on their dedication to the game, because i can sure as hell do the same thing for mvc2.
“Let’s throw like gentlemen!” :china:
goes for throw break
psssh!
Damn it Dudley you threw a rose! Damn 50/50 mixup! :annoy:
:encore:
whys everybody got ta get so defensive about the “wanting to be like the Japanese players” comment? I’m sure he didn’t mean you want to start eating sushi and taking your shoes off before you go into your homes because you where beaten by them.
if you are a serious player and you get beat in a any game that you play in and then you train harder at it because of those loses so you dont lose the next time you play, then you DO want to be like the person who bested you. if you see how well the game can be played and it makes you play harder, you do want to be like if not better than the ones who inspired you.
we all want to be like the winners in the games we play.
if your serious player and your not at the top, you definitely WANT to be there. you want to be like the guy or guys who ARE there.
anyway, i understand what the OP is saying. sometimes it takes an ass whoopin ta get you where you need to be. no shame in that at all.
I remember the main reason I didn’t get into 3s was because at the time Alpha 3 didn’t yet degenerate into V-ism madness in the states. ALso, 3rd strike was fifty cents to play AND to continue.
i think price might be a factor. 3rd Strike, compared to other fighters at the time (besides 2i of course) was a high damage fighter. Normal arcade goers just don’t have the desire to put down that much cash for something that’s over in less than 2 minutes. For the longest time I saw 2i veterans still using Koho with Yun, but they were winning and discouraging new players (namely, alpha 3 players like me) to pick up the game.
So partly, greedy ass arcade operators are to blame. Setting damage up or charging 50 cents a game turns normal arcade patrons off. THis was the only reason why I even knew KOF existed, cause the SNK machines are always 25 cents only 
This discussion is exciting because you talk deep about these games (MvC2 & 3s)
I really had liked to see this kind of discussion with KOF series, but the game wasn’t popular in the USA.
Here in Mexico that was the game, along with MvC and MvC2. And I’ll be honest, I never saw one machine with 3rd Strike, even in the biggest arcades places. That game never existed here.
And now the arcade scene here is dead. So we are out of the map hehe!
g unit up in here
I love you.
I have noticed this myself(because I’m one of the aformentioned 3s haters). I think we can’t stop hating because it’s an SF. If any of the DOA or MK games were called “Street Fighter 3” then it’d be the same for those games. Actually, it isn’t necessary to use DOA/MK(the de facto scrubby games of SRK) as an example. If VF5/Tekken5DR/GG were given the Street Fighter 3 moniker then I would think they were bad games simply because they completely defeat the purpose of making a sequel in the first place. If a game is wildly popular and players anticipate a sequel then giving us something unlike what we enjoyed and calling it a sequel is a bad idea IMO. SF3 simply didn’t live up to SF2’s standard(right now I’m just talking about gameplay).
The name of the game SHOULD factor in if it’s a sequel.
You are hyperbolizing. That logic is flawed because SF2 is an improvement upon SF1. SF3 is not an improvement upon SF2, it is a change(almost a complete 180). Name a few things about SFI that SFII didn’t improve upon. Name a few things about SFII that SFIII DID improve upon. Capcom took what people liked about SFI and fleshed it out for SFII. And from SFII to ST they refined the system(and it’s even arguable that supers have no need). On the other hand, when Capcom made SFIII they listened to the mainstream and attempted to appease them(which is a good idea but not at the risk of ruining what made people like the predecessor). SF2 was an improvement, SF3 was a change. SF1 needed more. SF2 did not. Nothing added to SF3 was necessary. SF3 is a complete 180. Sequels should not be so unlike the [very successful] game that came before.
For what it’s worth, I’ll add my two cents.
Around the time the VS games were beasting at the arcades, you had two or three fighting games that the community based all their events and competition around. At the tail end of the 90s, when NG came out, XvSF, MvSF, then MVC1 (which was HUGE) were what the flashy gamers and younger guys who weren’t really from the SF2 generation were playing, whilst the older SF veterans and pretty much anyone who liked fighters were playing A3. Tekken Tag was also massively popular with the usual Tekken heads, more so than any other Tekkn, as it’s release coincided with a peak in arcade interest, and the game was excellent.
So, along with the ever faithful ST scene (although at this point I’d say that most folks had put this game on hiatus whilst the competition was so hot on the aforementioned MVC1, A3, TTT, the machine would often stand unsused) there were a set of red hot games that were keeping both the old school and the new wave of arcade fighters happy.
Then New Generation came. After years of waiting for SF3, the regular all-round video game player was no longer typically a frequenter of arcades. He was most likely to play on his console at home on his own, or with a few buddies. The Streetfighter craze that had swept the world had faded into memeory with the SNES, and magazines no longer had the mandatory ‘When will SF3 come out?’ letters each month.
So, when NG came, it faced a few problems. Firstly, it was on CPS3. Now, bear in mind that whilst a new neo geo or cps2 game was a must-have purchase for arcade operators, who had stockpiled loads of those relatively cheap arcade boards after many successful years, CPS3 was new, expensive, and had thus far produced nothing remotely commercially successful. So, when say, a 1994 release would have had every coin-operated venue in the galaxy to pre-order 5 machines, at this stage it represented a gamble for arcades that were just about surviving (and as we now know, were teetering on extinction), shelling out for a brand new board and system wasn’t really an option for many. So, as often happens with particular titles, they played the waiting game. This has happened with Guilty Gear, CVS2 in Europe, and others. Arcades wouldn’t get the game on release, but would wait to see if their competitors got it, and if they made money from it the others would follow suit.
NG arrived without the fanfare it should have, as it is initially aracde only, and rightly so. But, the average jo player doesn’t go to the arcade, and even if/when he does, most arcades don’t have it straight away. Those that do are disappointed by a game that lacks the familiar characters of old, but fails to replace them with equally exciting and colourful characters. This initial disappointment from fans of the series is soon overshadowed by the highly influential top tier of competitive players to brand the game as overly-turtle friendly and the parry system over-powered. The game feels unfinished and without the seal of approval from the top, the game fails to have any momentum, which most ardade titles need to become successful and to be picked up when converted to console. I remember on a Marvel board I used to post on in 1999, some Australian player was talking about how 3S had just come out and how he was getting in to playing 12, of all characters. The reply from the Cali guys on the thread was that ‘if you were to see high level play, you’d drop that game. It really does get reduced to turtling and knocking out jabs and shorts, cos anything else baits a parry->big damage.’ they went as far as to say that they could point him in the direction of videos that would make him drop the game permanently. Parry was far too easy and overpowered in NG, and there were sloppy elements of the game like infinites and silly combos that spoiled the apparent slickness of it.
Now, as somebody had pointed out, the time between NG and 3S was really when internent video became convenient and easy to access. Although there were videos prior to this, match videos for anything but the big majors were very uncommon to see, so when a well-known player told players something, a lot of people took it word-for-word, as was reasonable to do so. With limited availability and all this nay-saying from the top, what was an OK but unforgiveably unfinished and unpolished game never really picked up the competition from the hardcore for it to break past MVC, A3, and TTT as the games that got all the attention both at tournaments and arcade casuals. Importantly, the game failed to appeal either to the older heads who had gone from SF2->SFA3, and the younger and flashier players who had become the backbone of the Marvel community.
With no home release for a while, the game couldn’t capitalise on the SNES generation who had been anticipating SF3 for years and years, so when it finally made it’s way onto a failing console, it was reviewed and received like a mediocre arcade game being released for a mediocre console already flooded with a disproportionate number of quality 2D fighters.
Fast forward past 2i, which was more of the same in terms of audience and the way it was received, and 3S comes out. WIth the context, as you can imagine it wasn’t picked up by most arcades, and whilst many liked it and tried really hard to have it taken seriously (i.e campaigns to have it included in Apex, lots of threads on the game) most were sceptical. What changed the envoronment into something that was friendly to 3S being accepted was the gradual death of A3. As has been mentioned, the move towards V-ism mania turned a lot of people off, and the game had by this point run it’s course. It had been exhausted, and the core of older players that had stuck with Streetfighter through SF2 into the alphas now either dropped of the radar or had to find a new 2D fighter in the traditional, non-Marvel sense.
Around this time the US vs Japan exposes the massive difference in quality between east and west, suggesting a far more evident skill element to a game that had been written off as one-dimensional and boring. Alpha 3 players started playing 3S, as did a lot of the Marvel players, and the bandwagon started. WIth subsequent console releases and the dawning of video, it really didn’t stop rolling, and this was accentuated by the ease of starting up for newbies, which hadn’t been a factor when the game was unplayed. Furthermore, those who had always been behined the game were very vocal, as has been mentioned, which ingrained this almost evangelical streak in the community, always trying to spread the word and justify the game as a top title- which we still se to this day… anyone try posting ‘3s sucks’ anywhere in any thread will see what I mean…
“FUCKIN AMEN!” to that one bro. so many great games went to shit for this exact reason. its also the reason movie versions of animation and comic books allways suck.
so now that this has become a 3 star thread… can we atleast discuss 3S scenes in arcades across the US prior to 2001?.. i’d be suprised to see more than 4 people respond with anything other than “nobody played”
Funny, I got into Third Strike because I thought it was fun.
WOW: that was a GREAT POST. This sums up, very well, the reasons 3S wasn’t popular for the longest time (the juggles are actually 1 of my fave’ things about it). If the game became popular because of a small group so far away from most SF fans (Japan’s about as far as you can get) around the world, that ITSELF is very inspiring: see the difference the few can make amidst the many. It’s true that V-isms ruined a lot of the fun of A3, but the best Guy player in Japan does VERY well with A-ism and it’s enough to make me want to try the game again IF I can find anyone else who’s still interested! 
Best post in the thread!
Also I’m so sorry for my n00bness…but…what’s turtling?
Turtling is excessive use of the down/back command to crouch block, like a turtle going into it’s shell. So, a turtle friendly game is one in which it is tactically sound or rewarding to a player to block a lot and wait to counter.
A lot of these terms are explained in the wiki on the main page, btw.
Yeah, thats right, too bad you don’t seem to know anything other than a game progression of SF1, SF2, SF3.
Arguably, Street Fighter II World Warrior to Hyper Fighting were the very successful ones, and by ST there were already FIVE versions of SF2, not counting the rainbow editions.
I swear, these forum peeps are pathetic, when 4 years ago it was all “Oh yeah I liked 3S the whole time, I KNEW it was gonna be big.” now it’s “Oh yeah OG is where its AT! I knew that the whole time, never gave 3S a second look”
Asshats
OG is where its AT! I knew that the whole time, never gave 3S a second look.
Oh yeah? I liked 3S the whole time, I KNEW it was gonna be big.