Seth Q&A: Ask simple questions here!

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
261

Seth doesn’t have any good ways to beat both walk up/dash up and focus besides EX Sonic Boom, and that’s unsafe at certain ranges.

Versus focus:

[LIST]
[]EX Sonic Boom (add on standing fierce for more damage)
[]Super
[]Ultra
[]Sonic Boom + far standing fierce
[]Hyakuretsu (armor breaks)
[]Shoryuken hits twice up close to ‘armor break’
[*]SPD
[/LIST]

Versus Dash/walk up:

[LIST]
[]Far s.mk/s.hk
[]Far s.hp
[]Sonic Boom
[]Tandem Engine (unsafe from far away or if they jump at you)
[*]Cr.mk/cr.mp/cr.lp
[/LIST]

Backdash, backwards teleport, and jump back fierce are good at creating space. Obviously, walljump out of the corner.

Seth has some of the best anti-airs in the game. KKK backwards teleport versus crossups, shoryuken versus jump-ins, ultra versus jumping anywhere, s.hk and close s.hp versus crossups, and EX SPD versus safe jumps.

HP shoryuken has more priority, but lp shoryuken gets you a combo into stomps.

EX SPD, EX Shoryuken, HP Shoryuken FADC (for safety), counter-poke with cr.lp or cr.lk, backwards kkk teleport.

I play Seth in two modes: Runaway bitch and rushdown asshole. I run away until I get a chance to jump in or knock down, and then I apply mad pressure, two bars and ultra be damned (except versus Zangief, although I love to EX SPD him on his wakeup).

I have a thread somewhere in the archive about his reset mixups off of a dive-kick. Basically, Seth has a low he can combo into a knockdown (cr.lk or cr.mk xx sonic boom FADC hit-confirm), an overhead that lets him keep up pressure and gives you a reset if they try to jump (instant air headstomp and dive kick), a command throw (SPD), a shoryuken to punish them for pressing buttons during your strings, a great ambiguous crossup (j.hk), and a really safe runaway option (jump back hp). I know I just said a lot, but that’s basically Seth’s mixup game in a nutshell.

Seth’s runaway game is a type of offense too, relying on Sonic Booms and the threat of ultra to get them to chase you. Trying to set up anti-airs and pokes while running away gets them set on chasing you down so you can get away with an occasional walljump.

Seth does not have an optimal range. Seth can, and should, change up the range of the battle as often as possible. Once you’re in generally you want to stay close and apply pressure, but if you get pushed out you shouldn’t force your way in again. Seth has tools at every range, the tools are just different. If you stay at one range for too long you’ll get predictable and start getting pushed to the corner or eating damage. You need to learn when to run and when to rush. I disagree that Seth is better at long range in general. You only want to be at long range to get your ultra.

Zangief and Sagat have to be mentioned for their huge damage output. Knowing the Zangief matchup is huge to winning, even though it is in your favor. Really, just look at the tier list. All the matchups are important - you can’t win a matchup if you don’t know what’s up and the other person does.

262

Hey, thanks a mil guys! Some comments and/or questions:

Versus focus:

“Sonic Boom + far standing fierce”

Is it possible to get a free Tandem in reaction to them trying to focus xx forward dash your boom?

“KKK backwards teleport versus crossups…s.hk and close s.hp versus crossups”

Please explain the application of s.hk and s.hp in this scenario. I know s.hk will move him forward…ah, nvm. You mean cl.s.hk since the 1st hit arcs up and cl.s.hp since the punch arcs up as well. good stuff

Kiku, you stress Seth’s KKK teleport more than PPP: what is the major difference? Doesn’t the PPP teleport move him the furthest away?

263

Not unless they are just holding focus. The fastest Tandem Engine is 21 frames, and that has bad range. And then you start getting to the range where you can’t combo from Tandem Engine.

One thing I have been toying with is doing a mp tandem engine to suck them in after they block a lp sonic boom. If Balrog/E Honda is trying to sit in the corner and jumping over your fireballs to force you to walk towards him, you can force him to come closer this way.

Close s.hk is good because Seth leans back. Close s.hp is good because it’s faster. I generally just teleport out of crossups, but I’ve never been hit out of close s.hk well-timed.

PPP forwards teleport crosses up the opponent, but only if they are within a specific distance. Forwards KKK teleport never crosses up, but it does not put you as close to the opponent as the crossup teleport might. So, forwards PPP teleport moves Seth the farthest towards the opponent. This is why I always use the PPP teleport to set up Seth’s ultra trap and just vary the timing of the teleport.

However, the opposite is true for the backwards teleports. PPP moves Seth about backdash distance backwards, but KKK teleport puts Seth about half a screen away at least. I’m 99% certain about this. Just try it out in training to verify if you don’t believe me.

264

Will do. Thanks again.

Also, I am sure most of you guys have seen the Wong (Fei) v Arturo (Seth).

I am quite disappointed in how vulnerable Seth’s front is in this match-up. Rekkas travel forward quite far and even fast enough to hit out of jump-frames into knockdown (not sure if it is techable or not either). Seth usually doesn’t fret over losing ground THAT much because of his ability to teleport and wall-jump. In this match-up however, it appears that a reactionary Fei can punish the successful wall-jump; and teleport is hard to slip in if he only jumps forward in reaction to booms. I am pretty sure Arturo tried to alternate his boom strengths to make the jump windows and distances different, but it didn’t seem to have much effect.

What are some suggestions for this match-up guys?

So far, I have:

-use dash back to force a whiffed rekka into punish
-i would suggest KKK teleport but if the Fei waits, then it can be punished
-PPP teleport away

if you block a ‘safe’ jab rekka, you are still at the mercy of Fei’s mix-up: he can choose to either MK/RH CW or Shien your poke…lp or ex spd might be a good answer here

even if you block a rh or ex cw, spd should beat shien…but i don’t think cw is throwable =/ anyway, you know that Seth at least has the ground initiative here…to all but chickenwing, backdash, jump, super/ultra

Would really like to see Seth be able to stand his ground for at least a bit instead of having to constantly move away. Thing is, when your opponent has something that they can make you block from mid-screen, put you in a guessing game afterwards, AND punish teleport/jump-away/backdash quite well, it’s not a really good thing. lol

Seth’s Boom’s:
(start-up/recovery/blockstun)

14/48/?

Ryu’s Hadouken’s:

13/45/18

guess it really makes a difference…

265

I have not seen that. Link please?

266

[media=youtube]mGsyIZr-F4A[/media]

267

A few things (in before I get flamed, but whatever):

[LIST]
[]Anti-air DP would have done wonders in that match. If Fei Long jumps at you and throws something out, it should equal free dp. Usually it’ll be lp shoryu -> stomps too.
[]Arturo’s mixup game isn’t that great. Off of the reset he does dp fadc too often (costs meter, doesn’t do much stun) and never does instant air stomp, cr.lk, Tandem Engine, or SPD.
[]He doesn’t use SPD to tick throw
[]He doesn’t know to punish second rekka with DP
[]He uses the wrong backwards teleport I believe (PPP) and does it when he could get a free reversal DP on his wakeup because Fei is jumping in at him.
[]Seth has okay pokes, Arturo should use them. The commentators act like Fei Long owns Seth up close. Fei wins, but not by such a huge margin that Seth needs to get the fuck out of Dodge (like versus Zangief)
[]He backdashes simply to create space. I believe this is a mistake usually.
[]He throws out jumping fierce too much. Whiffing with it is hella unsafe. Empty jumps make anti-airing Seth from far away harder, and neutral j.hk has better air-to-air priority than j.hp, especially if they try to stuff a j.hp.
[/LIST]
Seth doesn’t have to run away that much.

268

Not bad, it looks like the only things that could have been utilized better were the type of Teleports Arturo could have chosen, but we all know hindsight is 20/20. The characters Fei-Long on all of his Ex-Wake-up-Specials would point him in a certain direction, making me think that DP PPP Teleport would have been really strong in the match up, considering Wong used quite a few Ex bars on his wake-ups.

I haven’t really played a Fei Long before (At least one that strikes my fancy in terms of decent playing), so I imagine the match-up isn’t too far out of Seth’s reach. Because honestly the advantages Fei has over Seth is being able to close the ground, with or without rekkas, which makes me think that they both played well in the match. I feel there is a lot of undiscovered country in terms of this match-up, making it hard to call if it’s anything more than a 5-5. I honestly didn’t see any bad trades (Most equal damage upon trades with the j.fierce) so I think this will boil right down to the players in terms of strengths.

I did notice one thing, Sonic-Bait Ultra really is effective against Fei, similar to Balrog. He doesn’t have any options to avoid the Ultra like say like a Shoto with Ex Tatsu.

Only time will tell!

I was beginning to think Arturo wasn’t playing up to par as of late, but after seeing that, utilizing the Boom FADC Backdash to Ultra, I take it back. Glad to see some engineering from him in terms of Seth.

269

Fei has EX Chicken Wing through fireballs, which punishes fireballs on reaction if you’re on point at mid-range and combos into a s.hp xx EX Chicken Wing loop (only on Seth and Abel). It’s a 1-frame link for each rep, but a good Fei will have that shit down.

I’ve played a pretty decent Fei Long before, and rekka pokes aren’t as devastating to Seth’s footsies as you might think. His anti-airs aren’t the greatest either if he’s walking forwards, because the flame kick is reverse dp, which means it takes longer to do from walking forwards.

270

Oh, I meant in terms of jumping over the Sonic booms and Ultra on reaction. Sorry, I should have been more clear. :smiley:

Yeah, I didn’t mean to make out the Rekka as being devastating, just beating out something of Seth’s is never in Seth’s favor in the uphill battle he currently is going.

I completely agree on those points you mentioned, and hopefully soon I will get the chance to play a good Fei Long so I can experience this first hand.

271

Hmmm, there was a time or 2 when Sabin busted out the njRH. Kiku, u wrote how it is not the best idea to backdash when u want to create space. Obviously there is the issue of the corner so that makes sense. In what ways do you try to move forward as Seth…esp when your opp has a solid ground game, aa, and armorbreak? Mix-up is so crucial. Seth has to be smart, perceptive, quick, patient, and tricky all at once. I fully agree that Sabin could have tried to stand his ground a bit more near mid-screen. He likely wanted to avoid eating an ex cw to combo…Also, if you are presented with a 50/50 and you pretty much know your opp will dp, rvrseKKK tlprt, punish? You would advise not using dpxx fadc? RH/EX CW beats spd iirc. Seth has to be very aware of his opp’s reversal options and Fei has an answer for almost all guesses…nj loses to dp… backdash loses to rekka/cw…etc etc. it’s quite a bind man…lol, blocking is always an option but yeah =)

272

that was an ok match but i definitely thought he burn meter too much and didn’t punish rekkas enough. as stated earlier you can dp or out poke cr lk from a distance to counter the spacing/closing attemp with them. also since he jumping so much adventually justin was doing it himself where he could have stay grounded to do AA lp dp for stomps. i also would have tried fa with trying to do rekka spacing.

273

Question: How effective is c.hp as a anti air move?

274

Don’t bother, just lp or hp shoryu. For crossups, do s.hk or teleport away.

What’s even worse is that if they jump at you while you’re backdashing, they get a free combo. I’m not saying you shouldn’t backdash, but generally jumping backwards, teleporting, or just standing there is safer as Seth in footsies.

To be honest, I don’t move forwards as much as I move backwards. If I walk forwards, I like to whiff dive kicks to claim space. Walk forwards s.hp is powerful but hella risky if they jump over it. I also dash forwards a lot, especially versus people without a fireball.

I do try to poke people every once in a while with s.mk and s.hk, but Seth’s walk speed makes it pretty hard to push someone backwards. Dash -> EX SPD is good. Tandem Engine is good too as long as they don’t jump.

Yeah, but he ate early jumping roundhouse and EX Flame Kick enough to make jumping fierce just as risky

The reason I prefer to teleport over DP FADC is that first of all if they block you’re in the same stupid guessing game as before. Second, Seth can’t afford to trade or lose if they also reversal, and EX Shoryu FADC is too expensive to use. Third, backdashing can cause your shoryu to whiff.

Seriously, though, blocking and teching is probably your best bet. If he tries to get smart and psychic CW your backwards teleport, do forwards KKK or PPP teleport and ultra his recovery. Like you said, Fei can punish you for doing shit, but if you’re not doing shit all he can do is poke you. He has the worst throw range in the game and his command grab is very slow.

275

Mid-screen versus Fei:

*good Boom beats Rekka
-if you guess rekka, then just have a Fierce Boom out and force the jump or use of focus (you have advantage after their dash-up at this range so something like low forward xx boom or anti-focus tactics)

-be mindful of jumps of course, but know your opponent (be active and reactive at the same time)

?If you use far s.fierce mid-screen for pushback vs Fei, can he reversal rekka you on 1st or 2nd rekka and hit?

**obviously, using nj.fierce is not the best idea as reversal rekka will beat re-jump, poke…here you can bait the reversal rekka and fierce shoryu on reaction, or backdash into low forward xx hyakku

*good EX CW beats Boom
-bait it…whiff s.jabs here and there…use this fishing for an opportunity for other strats as you know Fei is now playing reactive

-lp dp -> stomps beat EX CW
-j. uf stomps beat EX CW
-frwrdKKK teleport, low forward xx hyakku

*pokes are ok, but f.s.rh is out the question…Fei is a whiff punisher so you can’t afford to have too many recovery frames…s.strong/forward are decent, low jab, low strong, low forward all with boom buffer…if you do a high poke (for example, any standing), usually follow up with a low forward, backdash, teleport, slight pause to block, etc)

so, a rep like

fierce boom, whiff jab to bait jump, stand strong to cover rekka, low forward or slight pause for reaction rekka, fierce boom

when you train them to expect boom, you get to start dash-up stuff…and dives (depends on who you are playing, but limit this of course)

:u: this is how Seth re-gains ground, I believe…stuff like dash up spd or dash up low forward xx boom and etc or slight walk forward, boom or poke…get into x-up range and go for it…dive kick to avoid anti-air and etc…good points Kiku

Seth needs a stronger mid and forward-moving game…like most people say, you have to know when to mix up from running and/or keeping away to maintaining and/or pushing forward

it can be tough, but it is hella fun…get those Seth balls hangin (no homo) this is why he is so different from Sim and shouldn’t be played the same 100% (not a jab at Arturo)

276

I have a question. Why when i do a j.rh crossup to c.hp-light srk to headstomps, the headstomps wont connect?

here is a video of what i mean.

[media=youtube]Ueqeb12RpiA"[/media]

277

The crossup pushes you away from the opponent. The headstomps whiff because the opponent is too far out.

278

well if that true what about that psn replay of seth vs gen? all he did was cross up into srk headstomp and it worked?

279

It’s character specific then obviously.

280

so if its char specific who can and cant do it to then? anyone know?