If you can do it on reaction to a roll, go for it. But Abel’s lk roll is 27 frames long. LP Tandem Engine is 21 frames startup. That gives you a reaction time of just six frames. I can’t do that, especially in the heat of a fight while trying to do footsies. MK or HK roll, sure, but I’m guessing on which type of roll he’s using.
If you do MP Tandem Engine that’s 24 frames startup, which basically makes it impossible to get anything but EX or hk roll on reaction.
what’s the length of mk and hk rolls?
i usually use lp tandem btw.
MK = 30 frames
HK/EX = 32 frames
Use the frame data yourself next time please.
hey guys, i have a question concerning overly aggresive/“angry” hondas…i have a really
good rushdown honda in my area and i can mix him up all day but i still seem to lose…any tips…also any tips on how to keep gief out of his effective range
Honda is a powerhouse type, and those usually don’t go well against a rush down Seth. I think in this match-up, the best you can do is play really lame, zone him out and play slowly, without unnecessary jump-ins or unnecessary J.fierces, since any of his ex. specials stuffs that. If you rushdown, you’re very likely to get either Ochio’d, or a ex.headbutt/ex.buttslam. and that’s a lot of your health gauge right there. Not worth it against a character like Honda, who has a lot of trouble against zoners.
Rushing down is not an option against him, IMO. And against Gief… do you really need help on that guy? HP and slow/fast booms all day. Watch-out for his neutral jump headbutt though, it’s an auto stun on Seth. If he hits you with that, it’s 80% gone.
[list]
[]Honda with no meter = free on wakeup. Honda with meter = get the hell away (I think instant air stomp might be free on him in the corner though). You cannot beat random EX Headbutt and EX Buttslam, do not try.
[]Lame him out with j.hp and force him to chase you. However, be wary of j.mp to beat your j.hp (beat it with late j.hk) and his ability to punish fireballs on reaction with j.hp -> cr.lp xx hhs -> s.hk. That really, really hurts.
[]Punish floating fierce with s.hp or ultra, do not try to DP it.
[]If you really want to rush him down you have to rely on shoryu FADCs to beat his reversals.
[*] Any headbutt = free lp super on block. HP headbutt = free ultra or mk legs.
[]I believe you can punish buttslam on block with hp SPD. I think it’s a punish?
[]His super catches fireballs from full screen, do not throw fireballs at E Honda with super and charge.
[*]Do hp shoryu to AA him, lp loses or trades with his jump-ins.
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However, I do mixups on Gief all day when I get a knockdown because instant air stomp, hp shoryuken, and SPD all beat almost all of his wakeup options. This may not be the best way to play the matchup technically but I like it. If you’re playing Seth you have to be willing to do risky things every once in a while.
Sure, you can risk it, but you’re like, Seth himself. I’m onto you Kiku.
You’re right about Honda though, no meter= free
thanks Kiku and Garuda…i guess i just need to stick to seths basics and hopefully be able to throw him off…but then again who am i kidding…im playing seth in an actual tournament…go for gold
Excellent Honda advice! Thanks for sharing with us Kikuichimonji.
Any tips and/or matchup advice for Cammy? Her speed is terrifying and rushdown millitant. Her Cannon Spike seems to beat everything Seth can do in the air and on the ground. It also makes it nigh on impossible to cross her up or even jump, disgusting priority. Also her Cannon Strike combos stun Seth so easily. What is the best way to play this matchup? Also what is the best way to punish a blocked Cannon Spike?
I have very little idea how to play the Cammy matchup. All I know is that you can’t ultra trap her, but fireball trapping is useful. Also, you cannot jump anywhere within half screen unless you want to eat a cannon spike.
I’ve only played this matchup a few times but I think this might be a bad matchup for Seth. Really, you have to lame her out because her Cannon Spike is so good and she’s gonna reserve meter for Cannon Spike FADC ultra/Cannon Spike. And then on whiff she often lands behind you so it can be harder to maximize punish damage.
Don’t try to throw tech often, Cammy is like Rufus in that anything throw-techy is bad. You can crouching jab her out of TK Cannon Strike like Rufus, but if she throws or frame traps you’re gonna get hit. Backdash is good versus her mixups, so is shoryu and teleport. Do not try to reversal EX SPD Cammy ever in her blockstrings unless you want to eat Cannon Strikes.
EX Hooligan can punish mid-range Sonic Boom on reaction so you have to be careful about throw fireballs at Cammy, same as Akuma (EX Demon Flip) and Vega (EX Flying Barcelona Attack). You can try to bait it for lp shoryu -> stomps, but that won’t work often against a patient player.
EX Spiral Arrow also punishes Sonic Boom at mid-range but the damage is pathetic so the only thing she really nets is a mediocre knockdown. Ultra punishes, and good players are gonna try to dash ultra you to mess with your spacing, but then that’s when s.hp is useful because they won’t be blocking.
You can punish Cannon Spike with dash -> cr.mk xx legs, ultra, or just reversal legs. (Edit: I think you can punish with Tandem Engine, but I don’t know if you can follow up)
If she tries to do any bullshit specials just shoryu -> stomps on her.
Punish spiral arrow with s.hp xx legs. Reversal shoryuken though is impossible to mess up and is better than being afraid of a follow up Cannon Spike.
Despite your self confessed lack of experience in this matchup, you provided some interesting and helpful input. Many Thanks! Can’t wait for to try this out and see how things go…
Any new tricks in the viper match up? Viper rocks me so hard…
It is suppose to be 5v5 but it feels like 6v4 viper.
What do you need/want to know? I feel confident in the Viper match-up as much as I do the Zangief Match-up.
Edit:
Viper’s wake-up, if she doesn’t have meter, just safe distance jab Tanden Engine her wake-up, here are the scenarios:
-Thunder knuckle gets sucked in
-Backdash gets sucked in
With Meter:
-Ex Seismo gets sucked in
The only thing Viper can do to get out is Ex Flame Kick and Ultra that I know of. I do not know if she can Super out, but she can’t do anything that could hurt you on her wake-up without meter.
I’ve got much more, but don’t want to type if you don’t want me to. 
Normal burning kick will hit you. It is airborne on frame one and therefore immune to grabs. She can also just jump at you and do j.hk -> FFF xx mp TK for no meter. Tandem Engine does not catch people that just hold up.
I’m not sure if it plays out the same for Seth, but for Ryu, LP Shoryu while she’s getting up beats ALL of Viper’s wakeup options, assuming she does something.
Heres a compiled list of some great vegas to fight against…let them know u added them from VEGAS LIST
http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=220046
Thanks for taking the time. I have gotten a lot better in this match up. Still takes a lot of work.
I only really have trouble with one viper and he knows the Seth match up.
It’s not so much as work, as much as just waiting for your opponent to commit.
I will hit my DP almost 100% of the match, because I know the height, time to react, and patience. It stuns the crap out of Viper’s when you HP DP, because it’s like a damn Surface-to-Air missile just knocking them senseless.
Jumping MP, Headstomps/Dive Kick, Teleport, Engine, DP, Super, SPD are VERY effective in the Viper match up. It used to be known as a 7-3, but I feel like it’s a 5-5 based on utilizing the right tools.
Yesterday I fought a very good Sagat player. He claims that he play tournaments in Canada. I won with 6-3(however two of hes win was with my mistakes/input error on teleport at the end of the round).
He raped my brothers Ryu and Honda(he is a bit better than me). But seth is a very good character against Sagat IMO. BTW when I was new at this game(back at May 2009) I almost beated Alioune with Seth :D(He would still beat me today). Anyway my point is, in Super Street Fighter 4, seth is going to rape sagats ass
E.Honda:
ALL Sumo Slams (LK/MK/HK/Ex) can be punished by LP/MP/EX Spd