ok, what i found out. st.mp is good at stopping his elbows, also people say st.hp can help at some distance but i didn’t get a chance to try it. on his wake up os tanden beats his poor backdash, and his other good option is ex tatsu which is easily safejumped and punished with tanden to combo.
cst.HP is good in the MU, fst.HP not so much. cst.HP, fst.MP, and U1 shut down random drops (I think the recovery was decreased though, so now you might have to be really fast with U1…) Safe jumping EX Tatsu is fairly easy as you said, but don’t try to OS DP when you’re on the ground and they have meter unless you’re spending three bars for EX DP OS. On the ground, you can throw out pokes to keep Guy from running in your face. Once you start throwing Tanden Engine in and show that you can react to the durrroverhead, he has no safe way in.
I play Oni basically like I play the Ryu MU, but with less OS DP and more Tandens + fst.HPs. I aim to keep him out when he has full meter though (kara Super is pretty annoying…)
guys, whats so important about super in claw matchup? i saw people mentioning that when seth has enough meter for super, it is game changing. asking it because best player in my city is vega and there is a possibility that i will have to play him soon.
Super can easily punish any backflip, backdash, or walldive. It allows you to lock down all of his escape options with ease.
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guys, any advice makoto matchup? it seems to me that im approaching it competely wrong. not sure what to do with her at all. zoning is impossible after she got u2, and her mixups and damage up close just blow me up, so i cant even start my game.
i try to throw some jabs to stop her random hayates, but it can’t last forever. on her wakeup empty jump lows and empty jump spds work the best, but i have to mix her up like 5 times to win just a round. maybe some secret techniques to beat her?
You have other zoning tools besides fireball… s.mk, cr.mk, focus attack, far hp, etcetera. Also, every time she tsurugi’s over a fireball, you get a free hk legs.
Mix up backdash, EX SPD, DP FADC, teleport, jump back, and block. Which mixups specifically? In my experience, she basically has to command grab/normal kara grab you in order to hit you. She has the overhead, and combos from it off FADC/meaty, but it’s pretty slow.
If they’re not punishing backdashes, just do it. Tsurugi punishes it for free, yeah, but then if you teleport she whiffs.
Random hayate is punishable on block… you can even punish EX Hayate (the hardest one to punish) with a perfectly timed cr.lp xx lk legs. Otherwise you can just reversal DP punish other Hayates. edit: Note this doesn’t work for EX Hayate.
She can’t punish a well-timed crossup after SPD with any of her reversals. Including lp fukiage and ultra.
Guess 5 times a round? Land one divekick/j.hk cr.lp cl.hp FADC combo and you’re in a prime position to win the round if you guess right one more time.
If she does random U2, you can punish with U1 regardless of where she’s going.
Makoto has to spend meter to do anything really impressive once she hits you.
Makoto’s low options really suck. She has sweep and cr.lk. She can only combo off cr.lk if she buffers off of it (into unsafe specials) or if it’s meaty. I suspect you’re getting hit by stuff like s.mp xx EX overhead blockstrings, which isn’t really a good mixup (or a blockstring).
Just don’t respect Makoto’s offense. If she does s.mp x2, you’re basically out. Just backdash or jump out or cr.lp or something. She has to guess U2/EX hayate to punish this stuff.
If you have two bars and she does something like anti-air s.mp dash under, just DP FADC. You die if she baits it, but she doesn’t want to do that.
SPD, Dash, and a few frames of forward walk into jump j.rh/lk makes her reversals whiff if I recall., but I have not played in a while.
I’m sorry if I overlooked a response, but I traversed through a fair bit of pages and couldn’t find what I was looking for.
Some of the issues I’m having atm is versus these relatively safe and repeatable specials, particularly horizontal moves. I’m talking stuff like scissor kicks, dash punch, rekkas and jaguar kicks. I’m having issues with them in the sense that I’m not entirely sure how to deal with it.
For jag kicks, I just throw out st.mp occasionally to catch one. For dash punches, I like to use focus, but half the time they also throw in a smash that breaks it.
Aside from neutral jumping as they dash forward, I’m not entirely sure how to deal with a lot of it. Even if I neutral jump, half the time I get hit by the 2nd hit of the scissor kicks depending on spacing. Or vs. boxer when he does EX Dash, if I try to hit with a normal on my way down after the n.jump half the time he ends up behind me, on the other side and I eat a meaty throw. Alternatively, if I don’t do an attack, he jab resets me or something.
I mean, I know if you do certain stuff on reaction, i.e. ex legs or whatnot, you’d catch a lot of the stuff. But, my point is that you’ll be statistically handicapped by doing it, as you have, statistically speaking, a far lower margin of error if you’re forced to react within 0.X sec at the opponent’s will, and if you mess up you lose more than they lose by throwing it out. Hence I’m asking for, well, what I can ‘throw out’ to deal with safe stuff the enemy is throwing out.
I guess I get quite defensive in situations like that, so I’m asking here for tips on how to turn it around into an offensive situation for me again.
EDIT: Also, how do you guys mix up your options after DP FADC? If I try like, any normal or SPD I get punched or thrown, and so far the only semi-‘reliable’ option I’ve found has been another DP OS FADC.
EDIT2: Just figured this might not be the most appropriate place, but I was just gonna start the post asking for matchup tips vs. boxer/dictator, but expanded it as it’s a particular thing with both of them I need to deal with.
Jaguar Kicks - just generally difficult for Seth to deal with. You can try to buffer DP to react to it (when you’re walking in and out of range, just add a df when you walk forward) or try stuffing it with fst.MP.
Scissor kicks - fst.LK after blocking one.
Rekka - can try fst.LP or blowing through it with an FA2 but generally you just don’t want to be at the range where it’s safe. Most characters don’t have an answer for Fei’s rekka at optimal range, Seth doesn’t either. cr.MK buffer works sometimes but Fei can whiff punish your cr.MK pretty easily.
Dash punch - depends on the spacing and which one he does. If he’s doing it from far away, you can EX Legs him or LP SPD him as he closes in (a lot harder online lol.) Seth can’t actually punish spaced LP dash straight but Boxer can’t really do anything about you blocking and just doing cr.MK Tanden or something to get in his face without taking a risk afterwards. Generally you should just be running all over him before he can do this though (Tanden Engine catches everything he does outside of Headbutt’s effective range outside of jumping and U1, so…make him scared of it, because Boxer can’t do shit to Seth other than annoy him with LP dashing straight if Seth doesn’t get his game started fast enough.)
DP FADC fw (2 hit OS) is a free throw, you cannot do anything against someone who has their timing down (you’re -3) unless you use EX DP. Technically you do not have a reliable option with EX DP/one hit DP FADC either because you are -1. Everything has risks on the follow up…you should honestly just block sometimes. The only safe mix up Seth can do against -most- characters is one hit DP FADC OS DP, but you have to back dash if they block the next DP and you just lost four bars on one “meh” mix up. Generally, the only time you should burn three bars on a mix up attempt is on OS EX DP since it leads to 400+ damage on hit, but even then you gotta know your opponent likes to press buttons after getting knocked down.
Hey, thanks for the response. Yes, for the last part I was talking about the one-hit DP FADC where you’re -1, so any normal/spd/throw gets stuffed by their throws or 3f normals, and so I couldn’t see an appropriate, safe follow-up without the use of the OS DP, but yes, as you say, I don’t feel I get a lotta bang for my buck.
I try to make better use of Tanden, but I’m afraid to use it to get people in my face (contradictory, I know) because half the time I eat a ton of damage from a reaction jump-in (maybe I just use it at terrible times?)
But thanks for the tips, I’ll try to be more scary against boxer.
It’s actually really hard to time that cr.lp/throw and not get stuffed. If you mix up stuff like DP xx level 1 focus (backdash because you’re not suicidal), 1 hit DP FADC, 2 hit DP FADC, and DP FADC backdash, it can be really hard to stop Seth from being dumb. They basically have to anticipate your 1 hit DP FADC forwards to abuse the frame advantage.
Here’s the deal. A lot of times people anticipate Tanden say if you do cr.lp cr.lp cr.mk xx lp tanden. But if you do something like cr.lp cr.lp cr.mk wait, you can often catch their jump and j.mp/DP/U1 them for free. Doing stuff like cr.lp cr.lp xx lp tanden is also good because it’s unexpected and people who are looking for cr.mk xx tanden might get hit by it.
While expensive, EX tanden catches people jumping out of tanden. Remember about the glitch that only lets you land raw DP/legs on hit if you catch them in the air. I think that if you catch them in jump startup you can still combo them normally.
I really like throwing boxer on wakeup to discourage wakeup EX rush punch. Your other option for beating that is hp SRK (2 hits) (FADC if it’s blocked). If you do a lp SRK and they do EX rush punch you can actually get headstomps without meter. Balrog’s only other true reversal is EX headbutt, and you can safe meaty it with cr.lk, cr.lp, and s.lk.
I just spam focus against Boxer. All of his armor breakers are free throws on reaction (except max range TAP) and you can also just DP/ultra them. Overhead and torpedo punch are unsafe on block (EX torpedo is safe-ish). TAP is safe at level 1 and leads to a CH combo but he gives up so much to have access to it. Either he loses all his good footsie buttons (hold down kicks) or the ability to anti-air (hold down punches). You can on-reaction DP or U1 any of these as well (TAP can be a bitch sometimes).
Anytime you do a safe jump/crossup/divekick against Rog and immediately go for an SPD, his punish options aren’t great since he can’t headbutt. He can neutral jump but that’s a lot less safe and can be DP’d on reaction or get blown up if you just go low immediately after the jump in.
Hey, sorry I couldn’t reply earlier. Have only been browsing through my phone past few days, so couldn’t conjure up a reply.
You make good points, as the amount of options to shift between means it would have to be predicted to be appropriately punished. I will learn to mix it up more.
Thanks for your insight of how to be more unpredictable with tanden. I’m trying to be a bit more tricky with it, and I think I’m getting more okay at getting it at closer range (around fst.hk range,) but I’m still having issues using it appropriately at mid-range.
I’m not sure I correctly visualize what you mean by getting headstomps through lp srk on EX rush punch. I don’t feel safe spamming focus against Boxer, but that’s because of my inexperience and potentially poor observational abilities, but I don’t dash out of focus to grab on-reaction armor breakers (and I can’t identify them fast enough… yet.)
If he does an EX rush punch and you do a lp SRK, you get the 2 hits of the lp SRK and the SRK effectively hits meaty. You FADC on block for safety. Obviously if he EX headbutts you’ll lose. It’s just an easy way to meaty him out of EX rush punch in a way that also catches jumping/backdash(not 100% sure on that).
List of Boxer’s best pokes: cr.hk, far hk, far hp, lp rush, cr.lp, and s.lp. The first 4 are free crumples almost every time.
If you see him glow yellow it becomes pretty simple to throw him out of it. Say he does cr.mp xx EX overhead/EX low. Throw will beat both.
The goal is to make Boxer take risks while you are doing relatively safe things. Which is funny, because Boxer is supposed to be this super-safe super-solid character that does this to you, but he just has glaring weaknesses against Seth.
Thanks, I’m definitely not abusing throw as much as I should in this MU, I’m gathering. The knowledge here has been very helpful, and while it’ll take a li’l while to make this stuff instinctive in my play, I’ve deffo got stuff to work on now.
Thanks bros! I’ll show up again soon with more queries and/or theory questions.
How do you guys deal with akuma and cammy? Like it’s hard for me to keep them in check to start working in my game. I don’t want to go ape shit till I have a good read on them etc.
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Against Akuma, EX SRK to punish air fireballs. EX Legs to punish ground fireballs. Punish 1 hit far hk with cr.lp -> cl.hp. Respect his DP, since Akuma can react to you blocking his DP with an FADC.
Sweep can be focused for a combo if he doesn’t have U1 stocked. Demon flip divekick can be ultra’d after he commits to the divekick. j.mp is also really useful in this matchup.
Against Cammy, play footsies with far mk/lk. She can try to lk spiral to punish you, but it’s unsafe. EX divekick is really really good so you need to respect it. Never ever let her divekick in, you can DP her every time.
A lot of the time, you can wakeup U1 if they do the divekick out of the j.lk/divekick setup. They can space it so you can’t, but the spacing is really tight.
Against both of these characters, you kinda need to feel out your opponent’s offensive tendencies. If Cammy only does frame traps, obviously just block or backdash. If she likes to throw/EX strike, DP is a really good option that she has to respect. Jabs will beat EX strike. Because Cammy doesn’t have Seth unblockables, taking a single throw is not a death sentence, so be cautious with throw teching.
You can do a decent job blocking the j.lk/divekick mixup in my opinion.
Not quick standing can mess up her setups. They can compensate for this, but it’s useful.
I thought Floor said Cammy couldn’t combo into anything off of them though (not that I know, since I’d rather pick another character for the match up…)
Got a question how dealing with Blanka and Guy.
How do you deal with a Blanka that is always rushing you down?
The hop is annoying, not sure how to stop it.
EX Rainbow ball seems to get him out for free.
Not sure how to punish Electric if it whiffs in front of me and it slightly outside of SPD range. Doing low forward, I get hit.
I dunno, don’t know how to stop the rush down.
As for Guy, how do you deal with Bushin flip?
Got a question how dealing with Blanka and Guy.
How do you deal with a Blanka that is always rushing you down?
The hop is annoying, not sure how to stop it.
EX Rainbow ball seems to get him out for free.
Not sure how to punish Electric if it whiffs in front of me and it slightly outside of SPD range. Doing low forward, I get hit.
I dunno, don’t know how to stop the rush down.
As for Guy, how do you deal with Bushin flip?