OFF JUMP- INS
[LIST]
[]j.HK ~ tap Up before you hit ground (I use this against Bison and other teleport characters. I also put a video up of me doing it in training mode. Warning, crappy video quality.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hArZUczN8y8
[]***j.HK ~ Forward Dash **(Counters backdashes. Helps continue pressure, if opponent isnt expecting, SPD for punish.)
[]***j.HK ~ Command Grab *(Used for characters that do moves that have invincibility and that stays on the ground. Examples: Abel’s roll, Yang’s dash, Rose’s Drill…etc.)
[]j.HK ~ Dragon Punch (Your go to OS move. Beats poor distanced backdashes, Dps, and other moves)
[]***J.HK ~ Forward Kick Teleport ***(Punishes dragon punches that have too much invincibiliy for your HP DP can handle. Example. Ryu & Akuma’s EX-DP)
[/LIST]
***j.HK ~ Ex-Legs/ Regular Legs **(Beats low invincibility moves/ Beats backdashes)
[LIST]
[]***j.HK ~ Tanden Engine **(Snatches sloppy poor backdashes and Teleports. If done on decent - excellent backdashes, then its good for added pressure.)
[]***j.HK ~ Ultra 1 & 2 **(Beats about everything)
[/LIST] OTHER
[LIST]
[]***Cr.LP ~OS Ultra ~ Cr.LP… **(Catches backdashes and slow invincibility moves)
[]***Dragon Punch ~ MP + MK Dragon Punch **(If it hits, the dragon punch continues. If blocked, the dragon punch is FADCed)
[]***Cr.LP ~ Cr. LP + HK ~ Cr.LP… **(Catches backdashes) I know it doesn’t work on Chunli
[]***Cr.LP ~ Cr. LP + MK ~ Cr.LP… **(Punishes poor to decent backdashes. On reaction to the Cr.MK, it can be linked into Legs or Sonic Boom)
[]***Cr.LP ~ Cr. LP + HP (Elbow actually pops them up) ~ Cr.LP… (Punishes slow, poor distanced, backdashes. For example, Zangief/Abel in the corner get hit by this, because of their quick ending, poor distanced backdashes.)
[/LIST] TIP
Ever Since SSF4 I’ve started to use Cr.HP as an AA (2nd Hit), and now, since its been buffed to come out faster, It’s been quite useful. Only use it on characters that have poor jump-in normals, floaty jumps, and on things that whiff (Air Grabs and Rufus’ target combo).It’s “OK” to use this against good jump-in normals, only if you now the proper spacing where that normal becomes bad. ***
***[FONT=Helvetica]Post AA Cr.HP-
***[/FONT] -J.Fw.MP (1 Hit) —
[LIST]
[]Cr.LP (reset)
[]Sweep (Hard knock down-- reset)
[]**~ HP DP (easy)
[]*~ LP DPonce ~ x3 Toe Taps ~ Dive Kick (Strict, opponent must be decently high) 2nd Best Damge
[]*~ LP DPtwice ~ x2 Toe Taps ~ Dive Kick (Very Strict, must be high in the air) Most Damge
[]**~ LK Legs ***
[]~ Ex- Tanden Engine ~ Cl.HP xX HK legs/ HP DP ***
[/LIST] -J.Fw.MP (2 Hits) —
[LIST]
[]***~ x3 Toe Taps ~ Dive Kick
[]**~ Ex- Tanden Engine ~ Cl.HP xX HK legs/ HP DP*
[/LIST] -Ex-Tanden Engine —
[LIST]
[]Any Cl.HP/ Cr.HP/ Cr.LP combo you want
[/LIST] -Ultra 1 & 2
***-HK Legs ***
Unless Seth has some safe jump setup vs shotos that I’m unaware of, this will never work because the reversal shoryuken will punish the jump in and thus the OS will never come out.
Just to clarify, I’m specifically refering to the 3 frame reversal shoryuken, not general DPs. I know it will work against Tiger Uppercut, Flame Kick, Cannon Spike, Ken’s MP Shoryuken, etc.
That said, none of the safe jumps in that thread work against 3 frame reversals. And the OP is also incorrect in this statement:
.
You also posted in it acknowleding (correctly) that you can’t safe jump 3 frame reversals and the other guy also posted (correctly) that in very, very specific circunstances it is possible if you manage to space the jump in so that the shoryuken reversal doesn’t hit on it’s first active frame, essentially turning it into a 4 or 5 frame reversal. The setup you posted above might work, I honestly haven’t tested it before.
Also, just to add to the 2 frames or 4 frames of blocking you mentioned in that thread, if you don’t do anything in the air you can block after 2 frames (hence why Ryu can empty jump after a sweep to safe jump a DP), if you perform an attack you can only block after 4 frames (on the actual 4th frame, to be more precise), meaning you can’t safe jump a DP. With empty jump Seth can safe jump a DP by either walljumping after a backthrow or jumping twice after a SPD, but in both cases, since you didn’t perform an air action, you can’t OS anything.
I don’t think you can (technically) safely cross up most of the cast, lol. Long post incoming.
Anyway, trying to do better (seeing as I’ve some how managed to work my way back to 4200 buttpoints and maintaining 1700-2100pp after hitting a stupid 3900 / 1000-1300, I’m going to assume I’ve been doing something better) but some characters have been giving me real problems lately. Would like some help, especially since I’m thinking about starting to head up to the scene in Chicago with a friend.
Gen - I have all sorts of problems with this asshole. If he starts flying around the screen, I have a very hard time reacting to stuff (I think this might just be online lag though.) Working my way in proves to be difficult…never really noticed it until I played a decent Gen yesterday, but he can poke me out all damn day. If I manage to score that magical knock down, it almost always ends up with me losing the momentum on Gen’s wake up. I’m definitely missing something here. I fail to punish his back dashes with read tanden engines (maybe I should practice OS here?), OS DP appears to simply NOT work on Gen regardless of LK or EX kicks (either trades or loses clean…am I doing it too early or late, or can I just not do it?), and it seems unusually hard to punish his wake up kicks with anything other than a quick shitty punish. If I get knocked down it might as well be over, my offense is pretty bad here but my defense is hilariously bad.
Yun - Just a strong character in general, but do have some issues that need addressing. Is there any secrets to keeping him out that I’m unaware of? A solid Yun player can dive kick over most of my stuff and punish fst.HP with it even. I have a hard time AAing him, and if he gets his mix ups going it really seems like there are -no- holes…counter hit or psychic DP (should I just FADC DP in strings…?) I also have issues OS DPing and safe jumping him. Does he get up early or something? Some of the same questions for his brother.
Dee Jay - Just seems impossible to ever mix this guy up on knock down. watdo
And then some general questions regarding Seth:
AAing with fst.HP after a Sonic Boom. This doesn’t seem to always work - does it only work if the opponent does a move after they jump?
Sonic Boom, KKK teleport - anything you can do to hit confirm this into something? Feels like you end up too far away.
Does stuffing reversal DPs (including Yun’s) work with the new dive kick? Does the timing change? Sometimes it seems like it simply doesn’t work.
I play against a pretty good Yun(shinji840 he mains viper though).
Against Yun the best moves you have against him are SPD DP Tanden Engine Sonic Boom and Divekick/J.RH.
You have to SPD his mis timed dive kicks, that’s really important in this match up because it’ll scare them into not doing dive kicks, and even if they do a proper dive kick mix it up with OS DP FADC and SPD. OS DP FADC beats all of his options except for U1 and blocking, and SPD covers blocking, so if Yun DKs you, and you have meter, it’s a really good thing. So say DP hits you get another scenario where you have the advantage, you can cross up J.RH OS DP, meaty DK OS DP, C.LK OS Sweep, those right there cover his options, you just have to pick the right option. If you get a sweep or SPD Seth can safe jump RH OS DP. Seth can also zone with Boom, S.FP, DP, and TE. Boom and S.FP are pretty good at baiting the ex shoulder and forces them to jump often. TE sucks in all rush punches and shoulders and also grabs missed timed DK. But yeah, don’t think of Yun as having the advantage, Seth can zone Yun and play with him up close, and you don’t have to go to him, he has to come to
You, but yeah I typed this on my iPhone so I’ll elaborate later
Yun Matchup Depends More On Good Reads Than Zoning Specially Online.He Will Eventually Get In.He Has All The Tools To Get In.You Actually Got To Get As Many Knock Downs As Possible And With Good Reads You Can Win There.
Few Things That I Learned Playing Against Yun,I Think Yun Can Mash Buttons And Still Win,His Cr.Mp,St.Mp.FSt.MK Just Own Many Moves.
1)Do not Press Buttons Against Him In Footsie Battle.
2)Anti-Airing Divekick Is Very Important,Do It With Jump HP/HK/MP Or DP,Stand MP Works As Well.
3)Two Of His Strings Can Be Focused.One Is Close MP xx LP Shoulder Second Is His Target Combo MP,HP,Back+HP.
4)If Yun Does not Keep Some Distance From You In Corner So That He Can Punish Your Wall Jump,Look For The Opportunity To Escape,If He Does And Waits For You To Wall Jump,Tandem Engine or Mk/HK To Create Space,His Move To Punish Your Jump Is Jump HK,Which Whiffs On Crouching Opponent.Train Yun To Do That And Punish With Cr lp,ST.HP xx legs/DP
5)If You Cant Safejump After Spd,Go For Tick Mixups,Meaty Tandems,Whiff An Attack at a Distance And Then Dash Spd,Till You Know The Safe Jump Timing ,Things Which Keeps Your Opponent Guessing…
Other Then That…Pick Sagat Or Zangief Against Yun,Hopefully He Will Switch To Another Character After a Fight Or Two.
Gen is pretty free when you knock him down and he can’t really do much against divekicks unless he has meter, if he does any of his wall dives you can punish them with fierce dp. Rush that shit down
If i’m not mistaken gen’s ex kick whiffs on crouching opponents so it’s pretty easy to bait. Don’t play footsies with him.
I play against an alright yun locally and the only problem he’s been giving me is that annoying command grab other than that I zone him out. OS dp owns yun.
ultra 1 his palm or use stretchy arms to punish.
If someone could shed some light on the deejay matchup i’d be happy because I have trouble against him as well.
this. his footsies are ok, so dont play them with seth. lk kicks trade. gens main problem is reacting to divekicks. if he is in crane stance he has a good AA from close range BUT doesnt have a propper crouchtech (5 frames at least, c.mp, c.lk, thats one reason why gen isnt even worth the character slot imo). c.mp is -3 on block and -1 on hit. c.lk i dunno, maybe - >9000 on block?.. oh wow, thats a risky crouch tech (but could be worth for him, it has some range and if he has super…). if he is in mantis he cant AA properly from closerange. only thing left for gen is mantis s.hp. if your jump is spaced well, that crap wont hit you. so frame trap him and mix up with throws/divekicks/later spd, he cant mash his way out of pressure like most others without wasting meter.
ex kicks would hit you crouching if you are too close.
my 0,02, i almost dont play this game anymore and wasnt really good when i did
started to main seth one month ago, but didnt play really often thru the last half year. seth is fun, thats it. i have really big problems when it comes down to some matchups (i lose almost every game against them) and dont know wtf to do:
-blanka (the not so random ones), how to preasure them? hopp/(c.lk) xx electricity is da shit…
-dee jay, his jump-ins are retarded, cant anti-air him (too fast, cant react), cant go for dive kick preasure (self explanatory), if he is close enough to hit me with ex roling sabbath(?) he does if i throw a sonic boom. and how should i mix him up when i scored a knockdown?? his ex kicks seem to auto correct
-oni. yesterday i played tr halibel, he destroyed me so fucking much with oni. after his LV2 FA forward dash cancel he seems to have tons of +frames. didnt know ho to pressure him. his dp has a HUGE hitbox
-yang. also against tr halibel, c.mk has so much range and is really fast, shitty slashes are safe and have quite some range. no chance agains his footsies. his normals seem to have tons of priority. what do?
Blanka: You can’t really pressure him. Lame him out with fireballs and standing fierce. Use U1.
Dee Jay: This is definitely a bad matchup. He’s difficult to get in on using Seth.
Don’t throw sonic booms if he has a charge and is in range for EX Sabat.
EX up kicks are a pain. If you have meter, mixup with OS DP FADC and SPD.
His jumps shouldn’t be a problem, so work on your reactions.
Oni: This matchup seems to be in Seth’s favor. Seth can keep Oni out and Oni’s defense is weak if he gets knocked down. Oni’s only anti-fireball moves in this match are forward and EX slash. Both of which are slow and lack strike invincibility.
Oni’s best range is midrange - footsie range and Seth’s footsies are terrible. If he gets in, you’re going to want to knock him down with something and/or keep 2 meter for DP FADC. DP FADC should stop him pressuring you after his towards+forward. Also, Oni’s towards+fierce is very unsafe if whiffed or focused. Be sure to punish it when you can.
Yang: I don’t have any experience against a solid Yang, sorry.
man i expected that dee jay was some kind of wizzardry on seth, but hoped to be wrong on that… with blanka it seems always the same for me, always picked chars who cant pressure jimmy (most cant, but whatever…).
Seth doesn’t have the normals or the walk speed to pressure Blanka (or anyone really IMO). Blanka’s electricity makes it almost impossible to jump after a reset, so use do meaties instead. Be wary of jumping away from his hop shenanigans because vertical roll can easily catch back jumps.
If you’re at close range with Seth and you aren’t doing mixups on the opponents wakeup, you should probably be doing the standard SPD/SRK/Tanden mixup.
Someone (sorry if you read this, I didn’t catch your name) was giving me advice while I was getting beat down by a great Zangief a few nights ago. Helped me a bit.
fst.MK is a great tool to keep Zangief out when he is near you. I was always worried about getting SPDed so I didn’t bother poking Zangief until the dude told me this. LP SPD practically never catches it, it stuffs a lot of things, and sometimes it even AAs Zangief.
Throw lots and lots of Sonic Booms. EX GH is scary but you gotta show the Zangief player you’re willing to throw plasma.
EX DP will avoid Ultra 2 most of the time, but you might end up resetting the situation if you do it really early (which is still good if you ask me.) Probably better off picking Ultra 1 for this match up anyway.
Don’t go for teleport mix ups after landing Ultra 1. You will eat Lariat. You can try doing fake mix ups, I guess. If you’re playing a long set you can probably condition the Zangief to do a lariat and try punishing it though.
I’m actually not sure about this (I was doing really bad for some reason that particular night) but it doesn’t seem possible to OS Zangief if he gets lariat happy on knockdowns, though his EX SPD does a good job at discouraging mix up anyway…
More theory fighting with this one, but fst.MP may be your only safe AA option if Zangief has Ultra 2 stocked. While EX DP will avoid it most of the time, it can lose.
Hope this helps, I still have trouble with Zangief myself.
its amazing how the matchup went from 7-3 to 3-7 (approx), that has to be some kind of balance record for the series haha.
i definitely need to be more aware and mindful of my s.mk game, EX shoryu is an interesting bit of knowledge.
i dont do any OS’, which is something else i need to work on, but i dont really know where to start. BP amoco and Aki are from my area (chicago) and just walk on me, haha.
I tried like 30 times to safe jump lariat with dive kick and j.HK into OS and it just didn’t seem to work. Lariat would win every time. But like I said, I was doing really bad at GGA that night. Didn’t ever try OSing teleport (derp) so that might work. A few times I managed to safe jump (no OS afterward) and block the Lariat so you can still do a little pressure (though I think I got EX SPDed twice.) Feels like you can just throw fst.MK whenever you want though at a lot of ranges, just have to be mindful of EX GH and if you end up getting cst.MK instead.
OS DP (DP ~ Focus attack DP motion with extra toward input added) seems to work pretty well against Zangief’s wake up when he doesn’t have U2 stocked, but good Zangiefs may wise up to this if you abuse it and get the drop on you with EX GH (this happened a few times to me, and boy does it suck when they know you’re going for it.) Using EX DP will eat 3 bars but it’s the only way you can really be 100% safe if they have Ultra 2 and no EX GH available. Of course it doesn’t seem like you can start this off of a safe jump against Zangief (maybe EX DP?) so its not something you’ll probably be doing much anyway.
fst.HP is still useful but I wouldn’t use it at all once they get within half screen or so. If you get predictable (like I was) the Zangief player can actually start throwing out quick Lariats that will tag you.
EX SPD can be useful in interrupting Zangief’s pressure.
Teleport a lot. I’m honestly not sure if Zangief can do much against this because even when I’m doing really bad it seems like all Zangief players take a chance on a read or try to keep up with GH.
This is probably obvious but do occasional Tanden Engines at all distances. Zangief does not seem to have a real answer to this at more than half screen and it can mess them up when they’re closer than that (but you have to be careful of jumping…)
Long post incoming.