Seriously, everyone is just hyped

in my opinion, Guile is still the same, sure they gave him Sonic Hurricane and made his charge time quicker, but when all is said and done, Guile is still low tier, at best, low-mid tier.

Give it time, when people become really good with old and new characters, become accustomed to the changes in the game, Guile is going to the back of the bus. You’ll still be hard pressed to see Guile win any major tournaments or do really well in them.

Anyway, this is just my opinion. Feel free to agree or disagree.

I’ll still remain a Guile player forever.

I disagree. You’re only looking at Guile and you’re not looking at the big picture here.

Guile’s main problem in SF4 was that, relative to the rest of the cast, he did pretty much NO damage. You would have to play solid as Hell every match cause if you let some of the top tiers get one or two good guesses on you, then they most likely had the lead again. Other than that, he was a solid defensive character with the tools to keep almost everyone at bay.

Now, in Super, his footsies are better cause of the improved hitboxes; his damage is good compared to the rest of the cast; some of his old combos are easier and new combos are possible now due to U2 and changes to multiple moves such as and backfist. In fact, not only is his damage good compared to the rest of the cast, it’s just better in general when compared to SF4 Guile. is now a viable anti air, which leads to back fist for a good 230 damage. That, along with Guile’s already great anti air normals will really discourage people from jumping. Faster charge time means Guile builds meter even faster now and controls space better, so there’s way less need to use EX Booms in fireball wars, which saves more meter for FADC’ed FK’s to get yourself out of mix ups, which is Guile’s big weak point.

Also, you’re downplaying the importance of Sonic Hurricane. Watch the Fuson vs. Daigo match. After Fuson punished Daigo’s whiffed with SH, the whole game changed. Plus, you can punish people’s predictable fireball rhythms with sonic hurricane. Just having it stocked is a game changer in itself.

He’s not the best character, but he’s way better than before. A lot of his bad match ups are even now (Sagat is 5-5 now cause of SH, improved charge time, and Sagat’s damage getting nerfed like crazy), but he still has a hard time against characters like Viper and Akuma. Still, a handful of bad match ups out of 35 characters is better than freaking half the cast being a bad match up like in SF4.

It’s way too early to decide on tiers, but he’s probably going to be mid or high mid. This sounds kind of bad, but in a game that’s as balanced as SSF4 (so far), it seems like damn near everyone in the cast is going to be mid tier, save for a handful of characters that are going to be better, but not way better like in SF4.

I definitely think that the above poster got it right. For me, other than the new tricks and faster charge time (etc.), the relative damage that Guile does is noticeably higher. In vanilla, I felt like I’d control 80-90% of the match, then one tiny slip or a good guess by the opponent would leave me with the health disadvantage. In SSF4, there are more tools AND more room for error.

I do agree that Guile is overhyped right now. I’ve seen some people literally say, “he’s gone from worst to first.” Talk about exaggerating! But my guess is that once the dust settles, he’ll be top 10-15 for sure, which is good enough for me.


It has almost nothing to do with hype. I played Guile in Vanilla but I dropped him because you had to play soooo hard just to break even. Now in SSF4, he just naturally feels good, and I still play him very similarly to how I did in Vanilla.

good post. well written. some interesting points. like you said, it’s way too early to tell, hope you are right though.


I am certain that Guile players agree - even if you won with Guile in vanilla, it felt like it was not worth the effort because you had to work very, very hard for your victories. It no longer feels that way in SSFIV. Besides, let the numbers speak for themselves. Guile vs. Sagat is very close to a 5:5 match up now. The same is true for Ryu, Boxer, and maybe even Rufus. Guile vs. Zangief has always been a 5:5 match up in vanilla, but perhaps Guile is at an advantage now considering Zangief’s Lariat and damage downgrades? Either way, I have just listed five characters, all of who were former top tier and who still remain effective and popular characters, whom Guile goes even against. I absolutely see no reason to complain, especially because Guile keeps his good match ups (vs. Dictator and E.Honda) from vanilla, and early feedback suggests that he does well against Dudley, who is perhaps the real “hype character” around here.

i think what you have to take into consideration is that the ryu/sagat matches have now totally changed. i actually feel way more in control in those matches than i ever did before.

ok what some people don’t understand is that it’s not about if guile is number 1, number 10 or even number 15, what matters is that guile is now good enough.

here’s a couple of examples for you:

first, look at abel in o.g sf4. he’s definitely not the best character in the game and has some really bad matches. but you see quite a lot of them in tournaments and you see them doing pretty damn well. thats because abel has a good character design for sf4. he’s got a lot of hp, damage, a get the fuck out of here move and a combo into super and ultra. he’s not amazing. but he’s GOOD.

would you say zangief is not a top tier character in o.g sf4? of course he was one of them. then why don’t you see him win any tournaments? because he has some awful matches against tournament used players like sagat and seth. guile probably has more chance of winning a tournament now than zangief.

when i’m using guile, i don’t feel like i’m getting bullshitted out of a victory anymore. in a game this (seemingly) even, i don’t think tiers really mean as much anymore. sagat was borderline broken in o.g sf4. some would argue he was definitely broken against certain characters. notice how the majority of the people who say he isn’t also happen to main sagat? the’ve nerfed him big time.

Thanks for taking my rebuttal like a mature adult. Glad to see we can have different opinions and still be amicable. I hope I’m right too.

I hope this isn’t too off topic (this might turn into SSF4 Guile match up theorizing), but some of the match ups definitely changed.

+Gief is still 5:5, but barely 5:5 in my opinion. My friend dropped Gief cause of Guile’s new With all of Guile’s buffs, it’s hard for a Gief to get in against a good Guile.

+Abel match up got worse. Abel is going to be one of the best characters. Great damage, great mix ups, great Ultra. This match up was bad in SF4, and it’s slightly worse (or just plain worse) in SSF4.

  • Sagat and Ryu feel 5:5. Fighting Ryu feels like old school SF, really fun.

  • Unless I’m proven otherwise, Makoto is free for Guile. I’m talking 7:3 free.

When I’m tight and on top of things in super I’m rewarded with more damage than vanilla. Just that simple. I can put more things together easier. his startup for some things seems a bit quicker to me but it could be a placebo effect.

I feel like I can put pressure on with him better than in vanilla too. not only due to faster charge but again, either his startup or recovery for some normals seems a tad faster.

He’s definitely different and even if he were to end up in the same place as far as tiers are concerned, i dont think the difference this time around would be so big against most of the cast. He’s got some pep to him in super where as he didn’t in vanilla. switching from defense to offense is quicker/easier than it was in vanilla.

Guile still has not changed in that it is easier to get out of a corner and stuff like that. Eventhough he is different, he still plays pretty much the same was as in Vanilla. His buffs to normals are great though, and I agree it feels like i’m dealing sooo much more damage lol. However, everyone saying he is top-tier and overpowered is just wrong, and I agree with what most people say in that he is a mid to mid-high at best (may even be a mid-low depending on how well the new characters develop).

dude, you sure about Sagat and Ryu being 5:5? I personally disagree, but who knows, maybe you pros know something I don’t. guess we’ll see as time goes by.

In this game guile is way better because his damage forces people to try and get in on him, he can easily gain the lead and then punish characters trying to lessen it in a big way. In vanilla any Guile player could do everything right, and one mistake loses them the round, that CANNOT happen anymore.

The characters that had stupid advantages that snuffed Guile have for the most part been lessened(except akuma), and really it seems as though alot of characters in this game can potentially be beastly in their own way.

Look at other fourms, Honda players already stated that Guile is Honda’s worst match up, since Honda have no reliable way in closing without getting hit, and getting hit in SSF4 Guile actually hurts. Bison match up is the same, Guile advantage.

Zangief match up is up to the players, patience is the key here. Gief lost health and damage on normals, which is a plus in Guile side.
Ryu match up is all about who controls the flow, both are of equal strengths and both threatens each other equally.
Sagat got hurt by the nerf stick soooo hard, I even felt sorry. His damage is pathetic, almost as if it was Guile SF4 damage, and that is bad… for him.

Besides, Guile has a faster charge for Sonic boom. This buff alone makes a lot of stuff easier: Zoning and turtling, corner preasure, wake up sonic boom preasure, punishing far whiffs with EX sonic boom like Bison Devil reverse or Hakan’s Oil up. Also Flash kick FADC Shades is his full 100% damage combo in this game.


Fixed because:

Makoto can do nothing to stop Guile Sonic Spam, and her only threat is her U2, in which she has 1 chance of passing Guile Spam wall, but losses that comeback factor from Grab Command to U1.

She either chooses comeback factor (U1) or another (or her ONLY) tool to pass Sonic Booms (U2). Still her damage output from her U1 is not that high, and her U2 may or may not be of use against Guile instant like recovery.

I’d take the initiative to say Ryu is actually 6:4 in guile’s favor. What’s he got? He effectively lost the ability to force you to come to him which means HE’S forced to come to you. I’ve currently not lost to a Ryu so far, and albeit that’s online and people are mad stupid, but the only people still playing Ryu, are people that actually -like- Ryu for Ryu. No one can legitimately say they’re tier whoring him out because he’s a real character now, same with Sagat. When I fight Sagat, it’s a tense battle for positioning and zoning, it’s not like vanilla where I basically had to overpower him with footsies else I get fucking One-Hit-Wonder’d for infinite damage.

I don’t believe that the Makoto players I’ve been playing have taken her to her fullest potential (no one has yet), but knowing SF4’s system, Guile, and what I currently know about Makoto, I just see no reliable way for her to get in.

Seriously, I zoned out some Makoto player so bad the other day that he just stopped playing in the 3rd round and let me win.

None of her dash punches have armor, her walk speed sucks, she can’t dash under fireballs, Guile can punish her with back fist if she tries to neutral jump axe kick to build meter. Any time a Makoto player beats a Guile player, that’s usually a sign of a bad Guile player. She can’t ever get close enough to cross up Guile and every other approach from the air has an anti-air to cover it.

Again, this match up could look completely different in a couple months, but I highly doubt it.

come on guys, Zangief has got to be 6-4 Guile favor. 100 HP nerf means 2 sonic booms and health is even and Guile can throw em out faster. Worse jump, worse lariat and spinning piledriver, just worse Zangief overall too then vanilla. I think df HK is gonna be quite viable against him too which is a gateway to heavy damage.

Sagat, Ryu, Balrog, Rufus all look pretty 5-5 to me. I dunno, Sagat might still be slight 6-4 though, but you guys could be right that its 5-5. That clears the old top tiers for Guile (except Akuma)

The only real probs I imagine gonna be Akuma (the original vortex master), Guy (new vortex person), Viper, Dhalsim (damage buffs, already was tough against Guile especially in the hands of a skilled fighter) um…thats mostly all I can think of. He might have some other matches slightly against him but nothing he can’t handle

None of his bad matchups look 3-7 for him either

I can definitely imagine some 7-3s though. Bison, Honda, Hakan, Makato, Cammy are good bets I can think of at the moment.

SO I really can’t imagine worse than mid tier. Likely high mid tier if you ask me. High tier is reach, too.

I’m pretty sure Ibuki’s going to be really tough, too, once people figure out how to use her effectively.

Makoto isn’t free for guile’s. Don’t underestimate her, she is not fully developed yet as a character in the sf4 world, but soon people will figure it out.

that’s what i thought. but nope, it’s just the same as before. once he’s in, you’re dead. he has jump ins that beat guile high kick. in fact, it’s a complete guessing game between what jumping normal he’s going to use and you picking the right anti air.

honda is now much easier. i keep owning the same high rank honda time and time again. because he has no real way to beat guile anymore. the df/hk - backfist combo is great in this match. i’m not sure what it is exactly that makes this feel so much easier than o.g sf4 honda. but it just does.

Bison is not easy IMO.