Edit: Updated with new formatting and feedback
Season 2 is just around the corner and nothing is written in stone yet. Let’s come up with a reasonable list of changes and tweaks we can send to combofiend or whoever is willing to listen. I’ll update this post accordingly.
After hours of analyzing, these are the hit and hurt box changes I came up with. Thanks to @Overheat76 for his video, I was able to capture data from it.
- bright green lined box is an altered hurt box
- bright blue lined box is a hurt box that should be removed
- transparent red box is an altered hit box
- transparent blue box is a hit box that should be removed
- bright red transparent box is a new hit box overlapping an old one
----- Important changes in descending order -----
[list]
[*] claw s.MP:
[list][] extended hit box to where the middle of the claw slashes
[] reduced hurt box to add decent priority
[] removed stray hurt box above head
[] change from 8 to 6 start up frames to counter long ranged 7 frame heavy crush counter attacks
[] active frames increased from 2 to 3
[] block changed from 1 to 0 to compensate extra range and active frames, since used at range 0 on block should be more than safe enough with the adjusted hit boxes
[/list]
[] s.HK: alter move to have two phases
[list]
[] phase 1:
[list][]created a hit box during the knee animation for a hit
[] special/super cancel
[] 2 active frames
[] required to avoid whiffing Matador Blitz on crouching opponents during a hit
[/list]
[*] s.HK phase 2:
[list][] extended hit box to tip of the foot
[] increased hurt box horizontally to compensate range
[] no special/super cancel
[] same stats as vanilla on hit/block
[/list]
[/list]
[*] claw j.HP:
[list]
[*] extended hit box vertically to the tip of the claw for proper priority and to match the visuals
[/list]
[*] claw c.MP
[list][] extended hit box to the tip of the claw
[] reduced hurt box to add good priority
[*] change start up frames from 6 to 5 so it’s faster than claw s.MP and has its own uses and trade offs such as speed (claw c.MP) vs range (claw s.MP)
[/list]
[*] clawless j.HP:
[list][] mapped hit box to the hand to properly match the visuals
[] extended hurt box vertically to compensate
[/list]
[*] c.MK:
[list][] extended hit box to the heel of the foot
[] reduced hurt box for some priority
[] change active frames from 2 to 3
[] less push back for better meaty setups
[/list]
[] claw s.HP: alter move to have two phases
[list]
[] phase 1:
[list][] a low to mid hitting hit box added
[] special/super cancel
[] same stats as vanilla on hit/block during cancel
[] less horizontal priority compared to vanilla to compensate for new anti-air during phase 2 and more active frames (phase 1 + phase 2)
[/list]
[*] phase 2:
[list]
[] a mid to high hitting box added
[] good vertical priority for anti-air
[] bad horizontal ground priority
[] no special/super cancel
[] same stats as vanilla on hit/block
[] removed stray lower hurt box
[/list]
[list]
[] if unreasonable, at the very least fix the stray hurt box above his sash
[] why this has no hit boxes during the animation, you can see here it actually has two enormous hurt boxes in front of Vega before anything ever hits the screen…
[/list]
[/list]
[*] j.HK:
[list][] extended hit box to the tip of the foot
[] extended hurt box to compensate
[/list]
[*] claw c.HP:
[list][] reduced hurt box to add a fair amount of priority since it doesn’t have a lot and can’t be canceled
[] increase active frames from 2 to 4
[*] add crush counter to make the attack worth using at -5 on block, we have no reason to use it in its current state since it isn’t an anti-air, crush counter, or able to be canceled
[/list]
[*] Mercury Shard:
[list][] fixed hurt box so the move matches the visuals
[] make the move airborne during the middle of the attack
[*] change input to down forward + MK
[/list]
[*] Buster Claw:
[list][] removed stray hurt box above head
[] extended hit box to the tip of the claw
[] reduced hurt box to add some priority to an otherwise risky move
[] change input to down forward + HP
[/list]
Normal attack changes:
[list]
[] s.LK: less pushback on hit so combos are more reliable when used as a combo starter
[] c.LK: add special cancel, allows for high low mix up into special cancel combo and less pushback on hit so combos are more reliable when used as a combo starter
[/list]
Special attack changes:
[list]
[] light Crimson Terror: change from -6 to -2 on block, safe enough to not eat a full punish but Vega’s turn is over
[] medium Crimson Terror: change from -7 to -4 on block, same reasons as l.CT
[*] ex Crimson Terror: change from -2 on block to 0 on block, it costs meter and you should at least be at neutral on block
[/list]
V-Reversal changes:
[list]
[*] Back Slash (3x Punch v-reversal): change so Vega flips behind the opponent to help ease corner pressure a little bit
[/list]
V-Trigger changes:
[list]
[*] After v-trigger allow something else to juggle other than Bloody Rain, such as ex.FBA from anywhere in the screen or cr.HK, m.ASE, h.ASE, and ex.ASE in the corner.
[/list]
Random Changes:
[list]
[] Increase the speed of the wall jump similar to how it was in SF4
[] Allow stance change before the start of a round
[*] PLEASE remove the SRK input short cut!
[/list]
[/list]
----- Changes that would be nice but not necessary, in no particular order -----
[list]
[*] claw s.LP:
[list][] extended hit box to the tip of the claw
[] extended hurt box to compensate extra range
[*] priority remains the same
[/list]
[*] s.MK:
[list][] extended hit box to the tip of his foot
[] reduced hurt box slightly to add a little priority
[] change active frames from 2 to 3
[] change block from 2 to 1 to compensate the extra range and active frames
[*] more pushback on block to be used at range since c.MK (see under important changes) having an extra active frame makes it the better choice for close meaty
[/list]
[*] clawless s.MP:
[list][]extended hit box to finger tips
[] extended hurt box to compensate extra range
[] priority remains the same
[] removed unnecessary hurt box along leg
[/list]
[*] clawless s.HP:
[list][] shortened height of hurt box above head
[] removed unnecessary and stray hurt box in front of his body
[/list]
[*] clawless c.LP:
[list][] extended hit box to finger tips
[] extended hurt box to compensate extra range
[*] priority remains the same
[/list]
[*] clawless c.MP:
[list][] extended hit box to finger tips
[] extended hurt box to compensate extra range
[*] priority slightly less than vanilla
[/list]
[*] c.HK:
[list][*] extended hit box to the heel of the foot
[/list]
[*] j.LK:
[list][] remove vanilla hit box above the calf
[] adjusted a new hit box to match visuals
[*] shifted hurt box to compensate
[/list]
[*] j.MK:
[list][*] extended hit box to the tip of the foot for a little extra range
[/list]
Special attack changes:
[list]
[*] medium Aurora Spin Edge: allow c.LP to cancel into it
[/list]
V-skill changes:
[list]
[] Matador Turn: for the passive version, have full invincibility similar to how Vega’s back flips used to work
[] If the hit boxes for heavy jump attacks are fixed that would allow us to jump a fireball and beat a good deal of anti-air attempts after a thrown fireball, so we would already have a tool to deal with slow fireballs and can keep the vanilla Matador Turn for medium and fast ones
[/list]
[/list]
----- Changes that will probably never happen, in no particular order -----
[list]
[*] Flying Barcelona Attack:
[list][] made the hit box represent the visuals properly so Vega is not belly flopping
[] extended hurt box to compensate
[] not so bad priority as vanilla
[/list]
[] ex Flying Barcelona Attack
[list]
[*] Phase 1:
[list][] extended the hit box to represent the visuals so the knee hits
[] adjusted hurt box to compensate
[] minor priority in air to air
[] hit box was increased dramatically, and though it seems like a lot players have to spend precious meter on it and outside of combos nearly everything beats it clean
[/list]
[*] Phase 2:
[list][] adjusted hit box to better represent where the slash comes out
[] not nearly as bad priority as vanilla
[/list]
[/list]
[*] Bloody Rain:
[list][]shifted the hit box forward similar to ex.FBA
[] extended hit box so the knee to the mask hits on the way up
[] should be better in air to air
[] hit box increased dramatically allowing it to work better as an air to air attack and not get beat out by a simple light air normal attack
[*] Bloody Rain costs a full meter so this should be more than fair considering nearly every character in the game has a fully invincible super and Bloody Rain doesn’t have any physical invulnerability
[/list]
Random Changes:
[list]
[*] No more losing claw during matches, claw stance is weak enough as it is
[/list]
[/list]
----- End -----
Please share your thoughts and I’ll update this thread. If anyone wants to talk hit and hurt boxes, lets do so! We should get this done in a week and have something solid to send to Capcom. Yeah, just about everything here is a long shot, but most of it is pretty reasonable. Any counter points are welcome! Please quote from this thread, lets discuss it, and then compile it for a final version.
Claw stance should really be about buttons, zoning, and anti-airing which is why I also added the claw s.HP anti-air phase. This stance should be good priority but no real combo potential. On the hit boxes I did, I increased some of the ranges of clawless a tad, but over all, I think they’re pretty solid as is and should be more about combo potential unlike claw stance. They’re pretty good as they are, so they’re in a nice-but-not-necessary category. There really needs to be a reason to use one over the other
Thank you!
