Scrubquotes is back!

Other than looking at tournament statistics, you can also ask players who are a real authority about matchups like the ogawa/shounen article in arcadia magazine a few years ago.

i dont know man, there are some top players that spmetimes i dont know what are they thinking, are they for real or are trolling
like in an old arcadia matchup table for HNK one of the rei players give Rei vs Mr Heart something like 2:8 in favor of heart what is totally laughable

I think that’s what KI said. Of course it’s good to know WHY he said that. The mentioned GGAC article had a huge matchup analysis by said players.

Also scrubquotes from the comments of descrubtoid

fucking goldmine

yeah it has a huge matchup analisys, but in the end their are opinions based on experience of said players, i dont remeber who was who put ino, anji, jhonny and bridgette on the garbage tier, basically beause he doesnt like them, yeah bridgette, jhonny and anji struggle a little on GGAC specially Bridgette, but they arent bad to be considered garbage

First of all, I want to thank many many posters in this thread for providing some very entertaining diversions for the daily chunks of downtime at my job. Reading the insanity spewed by satou over on Unity, for example, really helps to pass the time. :smiley: Though, his forum screenname is too close to mine for my liking, ew…

That article sort of had kernels that could have ultimately become good points individually, but the overall tone, I have problems with. I think the biggest one is that he’s banging his head against an invisible wall. This is what stuck out to me the most:

Who DOES this? How many good players, how many tournament winners, how many expert theory fighters, let tier lists tell them what to think? I am none of those things myself, but I’d wager the answer is well under 50%. Basically, the article seems to be coming from the position that the DOMINANT thinking among tournament goers is that tier lists are all-important, that they are infallible gospel, and that EVERYONE should be playing high-tier in any fighting game if they want to be serious about winning in said game. When, in actuality, that seems like a fringe viewpoint, not a core one. It’d be like writing an article about Star Trek fans and asserting that said fans doing crazy shit like showing up for jury duty in a Starfleet uniform is a big problem in our society… completely ignoring the fact that Trek fans who actually DO shit like that comprise maybe 1% of the fandom.

If he is trying to say ā€œPlay who you like, be the best you can be at whatever character you like to play; if the game has decent balance, you’re good.ā€ then I agree! It’s a sound concept! The thing is… who is he arguing AGAINST? Who ISN’T saying that?

i’ve never known of a tier list that explicitly used tourney results to get its data.

http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/forum/viewboard

TouchƩ. :rofl:

I’m disappointed at Little_Goten for not sharing this goldmine:

http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/thread/view/7411/28236171/three_frame_links_are_not_the_reason_i_respect_tourny_winners

What is a scrub, anyway?

What annoys you the most in Mortal Kombat 9?

What’s the difference between zoning and spamming?

^First link doesn’t seem to link to the correct thread.

^
i will laugh my fucking ass off at ANYBODY that thinks SHEEVA is cheap!

On that Dtoid article again, I completely forgot to mention in my other post the heavily, heavily flawed (on a NUMBER of levels) baseball analogy. The reasons why it’s heavily flawed are covered quite nicely in a long reply by Christopher Price on the second page of comments (with 50 comments per page displayed… the comments cannot be individually linked to, nor are they labeled or numbered in any way, which… is really stupid actually.) Here it is for those that are curious but don’t want to sift through all the rest:

Christopher Price’s reply

[details=Spoiler] Wow, this article is bad. Exceptionally bad, even. The author should be ashamed of himself for submitting it. As a fan and semi-competitive player of fighting games, but more so as a person who writes for a living, I’m outright offended at this tripe masquerading as an article.

Okay, maybe in the original article you didn’t mean ā€œbalanceā€ in the same way balance is pretty much always used in relation to fighting games. Here’s the thing: that’s not the fighting game community, or my, or tier lists’ faults. That’s your fault. If you’re going to use terminology outside of its accepted usage, you should clarify your meaning. You certainly shouldn’t get pissed off and write some 4000 word diatribe in response to the confusion you caused. That’s just common sense.

Of course it’s also common sense to not just make things up when you’re writing an article, but that clearly hasn’t stopped you from doing that. For example, you keep suggesting there’s some significant difference between the US and Japanese tiers for 3s when that is in no way the case. The suggestion that a twelve year old game that has has thousands of tournaments and MILLIONS of matches doesn’t have enough data to make meaningful judgments about character strength is laughable at best. Honestly, I could break down everything you said that is either contradictory, unclear, or downright wrong, but it would probably end up longer than your article.

The most inexcusable part, however, was that three paragraph heap of bullshit about knuckleballs. You spend 400+ words talking about the history and ramifications of something that NEVER HAPPENED. Look, it’s okay to not know or care about baseball. Lots of people don’t. The difference between those people and you is that those people don’t make up stories about the history of baseball to try to prove a point. If they are smart, they’d probably try to make a comparison with something they actually know something about, or at the very least do some basic fact checking. Since you clearly have no pride whatsoever in your work, you couldn’t even be bothered to do that. In any case, I’m anxiously awaiting when this imaginary Knuckleball Era of Baseball finally gives way to the next made-up fad.

To address the primary point: if you’re spending hours writing awful articles about tiers and citing single match exception videos (often which contradict your own point) to try to discredit tiers, you are probably the one who cares too much about tiers. Lots of people are aware of the tiers and play the characters they like anyway. Many people play and enjoy 3s in spite of it being pretty poorly balanced because they like the way it plays. If people trying to evaluate character strength, bothers you that much, you should probably take a long look in the mirror. And for God’s sake, you’re on the Internet. Get off your lazy ass and look something up before you put it in an article. I do it every day. It’s not hard.[/details]

This is actually one of several well-reasoned comments refuting parts or all of the original article.

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:wtf: My goodness.

Here’s a baseball analogy that *works: *All this yammering about how fireball spam is cheap (or whatever: throws are cheap, combos are cheap, etc… this works for damn near ANY ā€œX is cheapā€ cry)… yelling that something INTENDED to be in the game is ā€œunacceptableā€ (lol) is kinda like a baseball player yelling at an infielder over a pop foul out, isn’t it? ā€œMan, I didn’t even have a CHANCE to make it to first cause you didn’t even stay in fair territory to catch it! All you did was fucking camp under the ball over by the dugout and WAIT for it to fall into your glove! Cheap ass scrub, get some real skill!ā€

Sorry. Been busy with school.

I’m more concerned that your first reaction was to post there and not share here. I mean, it’s ScrubFistIV, we all no no amount of sense can be drilled into that thick skull of his.

Do you log on to moderate that place and just slam your face into a table every 3 seconds?

Why slam my face into the table, when I can show you stuff from there and get you guys to slam your faces with me?:razzy:

A Mexican wave of face slamming? TouchƩ!

Emphasis is present in the original.

I hate it when newjack randoms try to discuss tiers. Play who you want to play, BUT some characters are better simply because they have more tools or take advantage of the system. Unless a matchup is 10-0, anyone CAN win. Some just have an easier time in certain situations, and thats all the list tells you. The problem is when joe random tries to make a tier list, its some personal popularity contest bullshit because there is no way they have accumulated such knowledge and experience with every character to validate such list.