OZ seriously no offense I want you to play Yoshi and then you can tell me that PTX is not broken. After that then maybe I will respect what you have to say about PTX. I had to play him in 5v5 first round and I was trying to keep away with Blade and punish him. But when PTX can do the wave dash and covers a good portion of the screen. That is not all he just needs less than 10% bbq to do one combo that does nearly half life to every character if caught. Play Yoshi and you will know how stupid and broken that character is.
Whether or not the Giants are banned is seriously irrelevant. If you aren’t playing the game for fun as of now then there’s something amiss.
GCYoshi, props to all the time and work you spent on PTX. Fighting against Tekkaman and Tekkaman Blade isn’t easy. And I think it might’ve been a much harder fight had Royalflush used more crossups + baroque or called Tekkaman more as an assist, but still great work nonetheless.
X-Factor Chun-Li is going to rock your world bro.
It’s really a matter of learning the mixups and when it’s safe to approach PTX.Without Baroque, pretty much everything he does that isn’t a jab is very unsafe and his only real way of getting in (outside of a throw) is through his mixups (Which are pretty fast).
his 6B and 8C hit hit high and his 2A and 6B4B hit low, they come out fast, but they’re not impossible to react to. With Baroque, you’re looking at an even stronger mixup game from him which means you basically have to be on your toes looking to take advantage of him. (If he didn’t have these mixups, you could pretty much chip and turtle and all he could do is attempt to shoot you down with long attacks)
and about the missles, I find it slightly misleading to say they’re unblockable. The Missles by themself are in factunblockable, but the explosions they leave behind chip, meaning that not only is it possible to escape them by jumping, but by either spacing full screen or managing to wakeup roll directly behind PTX (The curve of the missles end up hitting his Foot instead of you)
I will admit the auto-armor is a little frustrating, but you can catch him in both startup and finish (Provided he doesn’t waste BBQ into a block). However, basically all I’m saying is PTX is very vulnerable and Yoshi didn’t win because PTX is broken, Yoshi won because he played it smart.
just my 2cents on this whole situation
@Nyo Dude Royal Flush was trying to call the assist but Yoshi was just blocking or hitting the assist with a tackle. What does Chun Li have to do with this? All the characters are going to be fast with X-Factor. Chun Li does not take almost half of the screen like PTX does bro.
@Cce dude PTX has unblockable missiles. You can jump out of the way but half of the time it is hard to do that. Yeah Yoshi did play smart but the character is too strong like I said and running away and poking is stupid. It is like when playing against Yoshi if you want to win you have to time him out. I just want all you people saying PTX is not broken to go out there and pick your Blade, Zero, Casshern and Tekkaman against him and see how frustrating it still can be. Yoshi is the only one who knows how to play PTX to the fullest and will show you the broken damage!
That is all I have to say.
Well you were saying things like “cross the screen and take half your life” which is our current X-Factor Chun-Li in MvC3.
And I think Royalflush can come in here and talk about Giants if he wants to discuss what he did right and wrong. I’ll leave it to him if he wants to comment about it.
Unless people are really worried about losing their fight money, playing out the rest of TvC’s lifespan with Giants included should not be a problem.
How about we ban normal characters and only use PTX or Lightan :wonder:
Yoshi I think your an awesome guy and do not take it as that your not a bad player. You are definitely a good player but PTX-40 should be banned. He is too strong and you play him how he is supposed to be played to where it makes him too strong. I look forward to you being awesome at Marvel 3 though. TvC is pretty much gone and I am playing in UGTL and then I am officially done with the game.
Much love to Yoshi, but I to feel like PTX is way too strong and I’m the only one that got anywhere near taking Yoshi out and that’s cause I played Zero(by far the best pick against giants)! All of the reasons people r giving that PTX isn’t that good, obviously have not played a good PTX! You can just jump away from missiles? Really? Not so much since the first set that come out during the super hoam! Also, you cannot react to that overhead canceled into instant low! If you r blocking high, you’re getting hit by low end of story! You have to psychic block that shit! You can however react to the overhead if you block low and he goes for the overhead all the way cause the overhead is ratherslow! The low hit is to instant! Every time I blocked that shit, it was cause I guessed right! Don’t theory fight till you actually play a good giant a.k.a Yoshi, then you can tell me that PTX isn’t that good when you can take Yoshi out consistantly and react to his mixups perfectly!
When I said this, I didn’t mean every single time, obviously when he uses it on wakeup, you can’t super jump, however, there is a very small blind spot behind PTX’s leg that you can roll to dodge the missles. At least, on multiple times I have reached this blind spot before.
I have to say right now I am on the side of Nyoronoru. I did watch the finals and I would hope that royal would come in here and say something about how he played against the giants. I will not say it was bad but it was a little bit easy to see what he was going to do next and not all that hard for GcYoshi13 to get in and hurt.
I am just going to say a few things about what has been said so far. PTX has mix-ups but they are not that fast and it is kinda easy to see where the Giant is going. His big combos comes off of the low hit that causes freefall and can cancle into chainsaw. Will duh block low. Yes he can go high and still get decent damage but if he get the low that causes freefal off without using baroque, that is 60-75% gone, so in short, Continue to block low!!
The whole thing about the missles is that GcYoshi13 is using them on wake-up in the gun barrage super (the lvl 1) for a reset. Now this is a “good” strat but it is also eaisly beaten if not done right. GcYoshi13 is doing the super with the Gattling gun along with the missles, so, when you stand up, do not hold block, just walk into the super. The gattling gun will do the damage scaling for you to not take any where near as much damage as if ***you sat there and blocked and waited for a missle to hit you and start the combo counter at one with a missle. ***
The bolded is what is going on. GcYoshi13’s opponets are getting up and blocking and waiting for the guard brake with the unblockable rockets. Just take the Guns bullets and hope you are already at 15 hits before a rocket hits you, you will take like 12-16 bill instead of 24-26 bill.
And yes the setup could be better with the shotgun or roclets but GcYoshi13 does not even use his gattling gun 3 times in a match so how would he even get rid of it to know that the setup is better with any other weapon, the one he is using works… You have to admit that something is wrong there right??
It took a long time to react to Magneto properly but many top players did it with style. They did not have to go MSP to win, they just had to learn the match and how to play it right. You have to admit that PTX has no Mix-up as fast as Magneto, so you could assume that if the world had 3 months to play PTX’s of GcYoshi13 level it would not be hard to beat out at all.
The big thing that needs to be thought about is that not only are you not knowing how to defent against this player by most of us do not know agressive ways to attack a good PTX either, that is a big disatvantage. With time the giant will be eaisly tamed. This I know for sure!!
I think Ken/Blade and possibly Zero paired with Tekkaman is the best giant counterpick with Ken/Tekkaman being the best (possible bias here but I’ve had good success against Yoshi with this team). As for the gun super or whatever, it still does like 20k Saequo so really you’re eating big damage whether you decide to block it or not. And if you have a character with an invincible super like Jun’s dancing swan super or Ken’s level 3, you can use that to get through the gun barrage.
Anyways I’m still kinda surprised there aren’t more PTX players abusing him. He really isn’t that hard to pick up. I started him a while back and after a bit of playing he is already very competent. It was a bit rougher a few weeks ago, but I was easily able to rush down and beat every player at SCR that wasn’t Zero. Though, I think if played correctly and paired with the right assist, Blade is a better choice as counterpick. Things mine would be missing most right now is probably just some simple match up knowledge. Good thing you don’t need to even know any match up knowledge for 90% of the cast.
Really the difficulty in wave dashing in/tackling in, getting someone to the ground with an attack, and either doing a 6b4b or a quick j.c, mix ups. All of those options can lead to HUGE damage and aren’t as easy to read as people say.
Hell I probably should have just picked PTX at SCR, but it was probably a mixture of just being prideful about my main team, and me being nervous about that tiny bit of match up knowledge I was missing.
In the end you either have to pick a hard counterpick and know EXACTLY how to do the fight (in which case its still a practically even fight), or just be part of the 90% part of the cast that can do nothing to PTX and be free to him. And honestly, most of the supposed counter picks to PTX aren’t that big of deal for him.
People posting from random parts of the country that doesn’t have a high level ptx player, much less a scene at all, really don’t understand how strong PTX is. I don’t have a problem with theory fighting for the most part, but what you guys are saying just don’t match reality.
Also, Saetan, you’re wrong about the no big combos off of an overhead. You can quite easily do j.c bbq 6b4b chainsaw/tackle into level 3. One of the criticism I had on Yoshi’s PTX that I didn’t really want to say at the time was he wasn’t exploiting that nearly enough, or even at all actually from what I’ve seen. Instant j.c comes out deceivingly fast(or maybe its just hard to see starting up), mixing between that and 6b4b and the person is eventually going to eat a huge combo. I rarely go for the actual chainsaw overhead because outside of the corner it leads to zero damage. though, in the corner that 6b overhead and 6b4b becomes a very scary tool.
Honestly, playing both PTX and a counterpick team, and doing both of this matchup from both sides seriously, I really do have a very good idea what is going on here. I have to admit though there are some situations and tactics I’m still curious about on both sides. I kind of wish I had the time to just sit down with Yoshi and test out a bunch of shit out just to settle what curiosity I have left. With all the drama over the situation I just want to examine the matchups for all they’re worth lol. Though with what I know right now I give it single-handedly to PTX for the most part.
Outside of all the ‘ptx is broken’ stuff, the other big problem was that I got the impression (and also heard a few things) that the SCR guys weren’t very satisfied with what went down. I heard they lost viewers on the stream and the people that stayed viewing it were just generally pissed off. In all it hurts TvC being supported by big tournament organizers such as that. Not that it really matters much at this point, but its something think about. PTX is bad for business.
Clarifying Section- I like Yoshi, and I like playing as, and against, giants.
If you just block the super on the ground, you’ll block the missiles. When the machine gun fire hits you, it puts you into blockstun. When you’re in blockstun, the missiles won’t break it (sort of like command throws). Don’t advance guard the machine gun fire because it gets rid of that blockstun and will expose you to a missile. Just take the chip damage. After the machine gun fire stops, just jump to avoid the last missile. Simple as pie.
6B4B? The very moment you see PTX lift back his chainsaw arm (and you should be watching for it constantly), you jump. You just avoid that mixup entirely. Or go for some kind of punish if you have the appropriate tool (invincible super, command throw if you’re super close, etc).
The only thing that makes PTX remotely overpowered is that he can get very big damage off of certain openings, while his opponent has to always whittle him down in a war of attrition. Pretty much all of his tools can be dealt with, though.
This argument always reeks of matchup inexperience to me, though. Reminds me of EVO when I was stuck watching the stream and pulling my hair out watching Jun players getting bodied by low-level PTXes and either Marn or Justin (can’t remember which) not knowing how to tech the grab. I know I’m a total hypocrite because I’ve never played a really high-level PTX and I know a lot of Yoshi’s opponents know the game pretty well, but I can still watch this stuff and walk away with the conclusion that it is the player, not the character, who is dictating the results of these matches.
Incorrect. There are a few instances you can block the missiles, but a PTX will set it up where you can’t.
You can’t block that super if PTX has an unblockable rocket primed… Its unblockable… lol
The 6b and 6b4b mixup isn’t really as dangerous as just immediately canceling into the 4b part of it. If you do it fast enough you can pretty much eliminate the 6b part of the animation. I think 6b4b and just alternating instant jumping c works better as a mixup.
I had to double check cause it’s been a while. Turns out that the reason it’s blockable sometimes is because the machine gun fire pushes you out of the way of the missiles so that their unblockable hit doesn’t actually hit you. If PTX has you backed into the wall then it’s a different case. My bad.
This post I can agree with for the most part. Ken/Tekka, Ippatsu/Tekka, Blade/Tekka and Doronjo/Tekka are by far the best to deal with Giants, Saki/Tekka is still really good as is Volutt/Tekka, but those 4 teams just abuse baroque and runaway just a little better.
On a side note.
Like 20 bil… No doubt it will be less than 20 bill out 7 of 10 tries. Test it. Now test you getting guard broken 10 times, and then come back and tell me again it is not the right thing to do. Like I said it is a “good” setup that could be even better. It is an unblockable reset with little room to escape. Try to find ways around it.
Like Cable and Sent guard breaks. Sometimes taking the hit is the best thing (like when cable tries to Guard break you), sometimes you are just going to have to eat it (like psy or Mag against sents guard break) , other times you can get out ( Storm can use her float command to get out of sents)
^ See just like in orther Vs games, yes the shit is good but there are ways to not get murked by it and still have a good chance to come back.
Decent damage before a lvel 3 and meh damage before a lvl 3 are not things to compare. I clearly said he can get good damage off of an overhead hit, J.C has enough hit stun to allow PTX to baroque and grab out of it. But either way you are not looking at two chainsaws in one combo. The lvl 3 hurts but to say that is where PTX gets good overhead damage from is kinda wack.
J.C Baroqued into 6.b>4.B into C or B Chainsaw
is going to be way less damage compared to
getting the low hit into chainsaw and still having baroque to do it all over again.
As I said, continue to block low. Yes you will get broken open by overheads, but they will do less core damage than the low mix-up is going to lead to.
Right now we are trying to “learn” how to play against PTX not beat him. Learn what to block for sure, learn to react to the rest of his mix-up. It will take time but you guys are trying to make it seem like Royal played the match up even close to 50/50 or like Tekkamen used to be at a 70/30 over PtX and now PTX is just all broken.
We need to learn how to play against the Gaint, and that is all there is to say really. Let us continue to toss strats around because PTX is really not that broken.
TitanD, Abobo, Big Boss.
Three people that are on to something that I do not know how to fight well effectively. You can ask them maybe about what they do.
I also agree that Ken/Tekkaman is a great team to fight the Giants with. Ken/Megaman is even harder.
Ok I’m finally settling in from the long drive, and I’m sad to be back at home. GGs to everyone during the 5v5 battle, it was a very intense and exciting set of matches. I will have all the footage edited and posted as soon as possible.
On another note, this thread has turned into another giant debate, wtf!