SBO Day 2 HELLA info long read!

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
161

And that’s simply not true. In FPS the reason there’s a 2/3 format is because most people don’t agree on the same map. And every map there has a different layout. So it wouldn’t be fair to pick the map that only one of the players likes. Nor would it be fair to pick a map which neither player likes and neither of them can play on. A match here takes 15 minutes, and from that it takes a total of 10 minutes of item running and 5 minutes of fighting. Sometimes it takes 5 minutes item gathering and 10 minutes spawnrape…

Starcraft it’s pretty much the same story, the maps are different, promote different tactics etc etc. Here it takes at least 5 minutes to get your base up just a bit. 5 more minutes to complete the buildorder you were starting out with(given you didn’t have to make adjustments). Thus matches take 15-20 minutes, sometimes can go up to 2 hours(on korean level too). Depending on the tournament a 2/3 or 3/5 format is used. But keep in mind that these players have a pretty good idea how the opponent tends to deal with them before the match starts.

Street Fighter(and any other (decent)fighting game) has the same rectangle map layout. So there’s no different things enforced. 99 seconds is plenty of time to gain a steady win. And here one (game) match is 2/3. And this is thus the only gametype where people sting up multiple matches to obtain a ‘fair’ winner.

162

Valid point, would we complain about 1 match if it were MvC2, since we would win? *Unless White, Liquid Metal, Takuyuki, or Sunahebi was on point that day :wgrin:

Seriously stop making excuses on the format, Japanese have won many US tournies too. :annoy:

163

You forgot to mention that the UK team should not have even been there.

164

You should note that the whole German team was french:P

165

Fixed. :V

This is simply not true. Every time you commit to an action in a fighting game when you are not specifically responding to an opponent’s action (ie: “I blocked his super, time to super him back”), you are making an action against their probable range of actions. If you keep guessing wrong (or your opponent keeps guessing right), you will lose – even if you otherwise have an edge over your opponent. If I keep putting you in 50/50 mixups for all of your health and you keep guessing high or low correctly, there is not a whole lot I can do about it.

Some characters take the above concept to an extreme (like Matoko in 3S, Vermillion Akiha in MB:AC, or anyone in T5:DR) where every mixup they go for involves huge risks to both player’s health. If you guess correctly three or four times in a row, you will have your opponent obliverated – whereas if you run bad, you take a very quick exit.

Never mind the fact that some games have truly random elements, like some moves in ST randomly changing how much damage they do.

…

As for the one set vs. two out of three set format… it really does not matter. This is a graph of how the expected winrate of the series changes as you up the number of games played. (Okay, it says rounds for the match; but they are functionally the same thing.) Notice that for someone with a 60% expectancy of winning their match in a one set format, bumping it up to two out of three sets only increases their odds to 65%. The actual gain for each set added drops off with the number of sets already played, too. What this comes down to is a question of if the marginal increase in accuracy is worth the time it takes to play the matches.

-Dippy

166

The guessing right and guessing wrong happens in FPS and RTS aswell. Did you think every Terran player always counters a DT rush properly? Or that no Protoss player gets marine rushed?

FPS would be no different, guessing the incomming angle of your opponent wrongly can mean he’ll get a frag. Some FPS are as unforgivable that getting one frag means getting at least 2 more. Not mentioning that the opponent has locked down the map at the same time and you can’t do a thing to him(thus loosing that map/round).

Every game has it’s guessing in it, and it’s up to you to take the most educated(and winning) guesses the whole game long.

167

a little late to the punch here…

Basically we’re arguing which has a better format: The NFL Playoffs, or the World Series.

Upsets can happen in both, but typically the top 1 or 2 seeds win the Super Bowl, and typically the top team wins World Series.

Someone said that SBO results were inconsistent, due to the single elimination format.

Gotta call B.S. on that. This is Spell Master J’s second SBO victory, and last year Nuki and Daigo won. Oh and the top 8/top 4 teams have had the same faces (KO, Kokujin, Nuki, MOV, etc.) for the last 3 SBO’s. Where is this inconsistency?

As for Gamervision ranking, someone mentioned, they are single elim until the final 4. And Nuki pretty much wins all of them. So that was a bad example to use.

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Well I think we can agree that a single elim makes for a higher chance of upsets, if someone gets in the groove.

Though I’m not saying that we were upset, nor do I think the format has too much to do about it. All I am saying is in a single game elim there isn’t a recovery for losing, you’re out.

Take the last example, the NFL playoffs versus baseball’s playoffs. Having one game elims usually means there are a couple of surprises, but generally the better teams win. Having a few upsets I think makes it livelier, and more fun to watch, as the little guy can have one good game and proceed. In best of 5’s, 7’s, or whatever, there is much less room for upsets.

I don’t really care either way on the format, as long as everyone plays hard and there are some good matches to see I’m cool.

Just because the foriegn teams lost, it doesn’t take away how fun those games are to play, so we can just suit up and try again.

169

Agree, to be in a major tournament and just to think that losing one single battle means the end of the tournament… that sucks.

1 game format in single elimination is something stupid and I REALLY mean S-T-U-P-I-D

That with the fact that SBO takes games off the tournament to put stuff like CFE, etc… makes SBO look like :confused: :tdown:

Thank God there´s still Evolution (the world best fighting game championship)

B3 was the best or like you guys say in USA: B3 (Alpha 2) was the shit (real gold old school stuff) :tup:

170

master akuma WTF you moaning about, you mean beacause japs play NEW games, their tourneys suck?

Im sorry didnt japs also win in Evolution? oh they did, i guess thats ends that agrument, when youve been beaten you just gota Swallow that pride and admit it, not none of this I wasnt using MY joystick, i wasnt sitting in my fav seat at a 90 degree angle, the moon wasnt inline with Neptune etc.

JERUS-terry bogard MI2 engrish

171

Damn I wasnt planning on posting anymore in my own thread but when MA shows up…

Dude Master Akuma you are the dumbest moter fucker in the planet. Take games out for CFE etc.? Look at your goddamn 2004 tournament line up. You have ALPHA 2!, CVSONE!, Hyper AE, KOF 98, KOF 2000, Tekken 4. You had the stupidest reasons not to put in the newer games too such as "Alpha 3 sucks cuz a jab can beat a SRK LAME:arazz: "

SBO is FAR superiour to EVO, with higher level of play, better presentation, better preperation, more organized, etc. About the only thing EVO has better is the crowd. You havnt even BEEN to SBO OR EVO and you claim shit. Dont get me wrong, EVO was a great event and all, but people who have actually been to both will reiterate what I just said.

GTFO

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Just an opinion, but I think SBO and EVO are both great competitions in their own ways.

EVO’s double-elimination, 2/3 format just yields the very best players and ranks them by skill down to the most minor differences. This allows the MOST accurate results.

SBO is just to give everyone a chance so that everyone has a relatively equal shot at winning. Even IF the 1-game format is inconsistent, it makes it much more interesting and even. Maybe someone on the other side is on fire that day. Well, then it’s their lucky day. I believe SBO isn’t suppose to really yield accurate results, but just winners that played the game well that day. So the format is just fine for this type of competition.

173

Lamest excuses I’ve heard in this thread:

“They didn’t have time to adapt.” Well, what about the Japanese player? He didn’t have multiple matches to adapt either, let alone adapt to 3 completely different play styles. Cleary there is more to it than that.

“It was a fluke cause they were just ‘on fire’.” Yeah to sit down and hold 3 of America’s finest to zero rounds. 3 different Japanese players were just on fire that day. Yeah, it’s a total fluke. Dude just had a Red Bull before the matches, that’s all. That shit gives you wings.

Great players don’t make excuses. Hence why we haven’t heard moaning from the players themselves. They are above that.

174

The problem is that people never actually came out and started giving excuses. What happens is every time US plays Japan about 50 people start getting all crazy because of what happened, last time it was “OMG We need to stop playing chun and start playing Q”, this year its “OMG we need to start playing 1/1 and play kofxi and melty blood”.

The response to that is “stop going overboard off of a one game team tourney”, then people misread that as giving an excuse for the original result, it’s just an explanation from the people who’ve seen this situation for the 5th time to people who are getting a little too caught up in the media hype and wondering why everyone else isn’t going all crazy with them.

Noone is disputing the results of the tourney, what is being disputed is what these results mean on the grand scale of things, and to be honest I still have to say ‘not too much that we didn’t already know’. It would have been great to do well, but it didn’t happen, ok try again next time.

Again misread. If you have all players of equal level, one person could still easily ocv the other team if it plays out that way, it happens all the time. It doesn’t mean that player is superman, and it doesn’t nessecarily mean the other team sux. Of course give props where props is due, the guy did a great job, he’s the man for today, his team won, good game. But no need to read more into things than whats actually there.

The more important questions IMO are what happened outside of SBO, traditionally the useful stuff comes from that week of playing games every day than during the event itself, in those situations there are less variables, the pressure is removed, everyone is a little more friendly, etc… If all 6 people didn’t win a single game all week in that enviroment, then there’s definately a problem, if they had a good mix of wins and losses with the top people and just hit a rough spot during the tourney, eh, not so disappointing. I’m assuming it’ll be somewhere in the middle, we’ll just have to see where.

Great players also know better than to make long term decisions based on short term results, and that is quickly becoming a problem here.

Oh and there’s no point comparing SBO and EVO, until any random person can fly to sbo and enter all the events, they are not even close to being comparable, totally different types of events.

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Day 3 Log finished. Go Go Go!

176

:rofl: at MA. SF is dying in Japan. If 3S isn’t back next year, R.I.P. SF in Japan. Sucks, but that’s the way things are going. Can you really blame Japan for playing NEW games, rather than playing old, tired games? Come on… use your brain.

177

Hell no they can’t replace 3s… not yet.

178

Not yet? The game is really old. Not saying they should, but I think it’s run its course…

179

I duno, some games get dated, but usually it’s no longer played due to dated mechanics rather than graphics. I think 3S is a gem, it just hasn’t been topped.

I kinda look at different games like individual sports. You could argue that the sport of Basketball is some-odd years old (whatever like 60+ or some shit lol). But aside from some minor rule changes, the NBA is the same as it ever has been. It’s not the game, it’s how people play it. They take the same thing, and constantly come up with new ideas and constantly get better…somehow. And regardless of whether people get better, the competition will always lie within that game.

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But 3S has reached its potential. The game can no longer further evolve, due to how old it is. The Japanese like new, fresh ideas, and playing new games. That’s why they give games like CFJ and HnK, both games that are arguably not good games, a change at SBO. If they don’t like it, they remove it from the line up. Newer games such as the KOF games and Guilty Gear have taken place of old, tired SF games that they’re not very interested in anymore. If Capcom gave a shit about fighting games anymore, then SF would likely be in the line up for years to come. Sadly, Capcom has abandoned fighting games.