You’re probably confusing it with the first SS5, the non special version which is part of Rokuban Shoubu. SS5 Special was initially planned to be part of the US version of the Anthology, but just like the last time SS5 Special was planned to be part of a US package (The SS5/5 Special package planned for Xbox/360 which turned out to be just SS5 for Xbox) it fell out from underneath thus we are simply given what’s left.
SS2 is basically SS1 optimized. SS3 had great atmosphere, but monotonous gameplay, and SS4 was a combo and pokefest. SS5 rectified this somewhat but at the same time lost credibility for its placement in the storyline. 5 Special showed the correct way to do a SS dreammatch while Tenka showed us the wrong way to do it with its abysmal presentation not just in the general atmosphere, but in the music, voices (although this was fixed somewhat in Rokuban Shoubu) backgrounds, and lack of character balance that comes naturally with such a large cast.
> SS5 rectified this somewhat but at the same time lost credibility for its placement in the storyline.
Uhm, what? Of all the complains I’ve heard levied against SS0, that’s the first time I’m hearing that. It’s also the stupidest complaint I’ve heard. >:|
> 5 Special showed the correct way to do a SS dreammatch while Tenka showed us the wrong way to do it with its abysmal presentation not just in the general atmosphere, but in the music, voices (although this was fixed somewhat in Rokuban Shoubu) backgrounds, and lack of character balance that comes naturally with such a large cast.
I’m kind ambivalent on SSTenka’s presentation, though I admit it’s “eh” (and the voices… why?). I wouldn’t SS0’s presentation is much better, compared to, say, SS2. But SST’s balance isn’t any worse than most of the SS games. SS0S is actually an anomaly in the balance department, being considerably better balanced than the average, not that SST is considerably worse than the average. Thus, I wouldn’t put SSt’s lack of balance against it.
My main issue with SST (speaking as someone who has yet to play the damn thing - where’s my PS2 SSAnthology Square? Is it coming out this year or what?) is the low damage. I think that’s the main contributor to the non-SS feel in Tenka. It’s also the reason why Mina is such a whore - I wouldn’t care about her if I could kill her in 2 or 3 hits like in SS0.
I’d like SS0S a bit more if it didn’t have 20 system mechanics, I swear they went crazy on that one.
Can’t pass on that roster though… it’s always the SS we end up playing here because of it.
@ Ultima
Anthology got a bunch of complaints everywhere I heard (unless the one who bought her didnt played SS before and didnt had arcade perfect SS1-2-3-4-5-5sp with online play on his PC or somewhere already, plus japanese SS6 for his PS2). Basically the only good thing from Anthology is english release of SS6.
As for damage in Tenka, I imagine it this way. They wanted to make fights 2 time longer, so they kinda made it like SS3->SS4 lifebars transition (double capacity lifebars), however in Tenka they designed lots of decorations and stuff around lifebars, so their size actually became 2 times shorter visually, but with 2 times more capacity, so chunks of health you take with slashes are like 25% of SS5sp’s chunks of health
And yes, defence difference between characters is much smaller than in prev. games, so you can count that Mina’s relative defence got up, plus she got combos and cancels, she became better in many aspects. Interesting that other high and top tiers from SS5sp got nerfed considerably in Tenka.
@ P.o.t.s.
your 20 system mechanics rant its like if someone said to chess grandmaster “chess are so complex with different units having different mechanics, why dont we just play with pawns for simplicity sake” and he will say to you “At my level of play, it will become super boring” and same SS5sp, at my level of play if it lost some of the mechanics it would become boring. Games that are marketed as casual-accessible plug-&-play games were always Mortal Kombat ones as I remember by mr. Boon’s interviews
Yes but the different pieces are already there, in the characters.
Taking your analogy, what random mechanics like the time slowdown do to the chess game is like saying “Chess is boring, let’s give some guns to the pawns and put lasers on the king’s head”. :lol:
To be fair, while the damage was toned down considerably across the board it wasn’t toned down THAT much.
Kusaregedo’s command grab will kill just about anyone in 3 throws in 5Special. In Tenka it will kill in 4 throws.
The key thing in Tenka that separates it from the majority of the series is that the sword gauge drops fairly quickly. You also lose more sword gauge by whiffing than if you had hit with the same attack. I feel that was the best thing about it, personally. Before, spamming strong slashes was bad only because it left you open. In Tenka, it leaves you open AND screws you over by doing the same amount as a jab if your sword gauge is empty.
This ultimately forces you to play more intelligently and patiently with your higher damage attacks.
We’re talking about the PS English version SS Anthology here? Is it leaked somewhere or something? Can you give me a list of stuff that’s wrong with it? I had kind a figured that SS0S was out, but the only complaints I heard were for the PSP version.
I’ve been waiting for an arcade perfect non-Neo Geo port of SS2 since 1994 (emulators are nice, but I want something on my TV, thanks), and I’m dismayed that I still haven’t gotten it in fucking 2009. >:|
Oh, and while you’re talking about lifebars: SS4’s double life bar implementation was easily one of the stupidest design decisions I’ve ever seen in any game. >:|
Oh, and isn’t what you said just a fancy way of saying that SST has 25% the damage of SS0S?
P.O.T.S.:
The only system mechanics in SS0S that are bothersome from a casual stand point are the Enlightenment and Zetsumei Ougi systems. Those could have been done a lot better (in the case of the former, probably not implemented at all). Most of the other systems in the game are fairly run of the mill, as far as fighting games go. It’s not like the game is Guilty Gear or BlazBlue…
Return of Shiki: re: damage
Maybe, but as Black Shroud reminded me, the defense differences between characters is much closer in Tenka, needlessly I might add. Mina and Iroha would not be as good as they are now if I could kill them like I could kill Mina in SS0.
It feels out of place as a prequel to SS1, with every returning character needing a new storyline, and them having their SS3/4 combined movesets it feels out of place. Like SS6 tries to feel to SS5 it would’ve felt better if it wasn’t chronologically considered. Then again, SS5 will always feel like an unfinished game to me.
I treat SS Tenka as its own game. So I don’t let the story or style stop me from enjoying this jem(At least to me it is anyway). :wonder: Most people tend to forget that each SS has been different from the ones before it gameplay wise. The story wasn’t too deep in terms of canon or anything and a majority was loosely based on japanese history and folklore. But anyway, I’m pretty sure Tenka wasn’t meant to be exactly like its predecessors. Which reminds me to mention that some people complain that Rei (SSV) groove isn’t accurate enough to be considered SS5 or SS5sp. One has to agree to some extent, but don’t forget that other games like Capcom VS Snk 2 had something called P-Groove which emulates the Street Fighter 3 style, but it wasn’t exactly that either. So I hope more people embrace this game since it still has so much untapped potential. Other than all of that, I still love to play SS1, SS4, SS5, SS5sp. :bgrin:
I’m just getting back into the game via 2DF, and did pretty well as Genjuro and Hanzo. The matches were pretty even, I fought against a good Charlotte player, and they beat me most times, but I did eventually win once or twice. I didn’t notice any over powered characters. Then I read about Ukyo and Gen-an, and saw a youtube video on Ukyo… I’m just glad I haven’t fought against an expert Ukyo player yet.
Then I fought a very good Gen-an player, and got my ass handed to me. What I really hate about that character, is that his Blanka rolls leave him invincible to everything but projectiles. So, if I’m Hanzo and I jump to throw a shuriken, and Gen-an does that roll that goes up, I’m screwed. Add to it that his AB attack has ridiculous reach. I haven’t seen too many match videos for SS2, so maybe I’m wrong. But hopefully you guys can help me out a bit.
There’s no shame losing to gen an he’s fucking stupid in 2.
If you’re using hanzo dont jump, hanzo has a high arcing jump good gen - ans will jump B you all day, dont fireball, he can hcb+b through it, try to punish his slides by hopping (B+C) then throwing or command throwing, prefrably command throwing because it’s the most damaging move in the game or one of.
As for complaints againest the collection, there aren’t any as far as i’ve played everything is pretty much spot on, no sound glitches or anything on all the games, yeah the load times are annoying BUT they’re not that bad 3 or 4 secs pretty much on all the games, yeah the training mode is a little bare but it still miles better than the shitfest that is the orochi collection.
I’m talking the japanese version here
I’m still rather pissed that SNK-Playwhore once again shorted us on SS5S. They teased us with its presence months back, then it simply disappeared from the Anthology. Yes, yes, first U.S. release of Tenka, big whoop. But IMO there’s no reason for them to even include 5 at all. Special was better in every way, shape and form, not the least of which improvements was completely removing Sankuro and Yumeji.
@ Return of Shiki
Depending on character and ultimately on strength of attack, you could sacrifice alot of sword gauge in SS5sp on a whiffed strong slash. Haohmaru’s and Genjuro’s drained whole gauge at one whiff btw.
@ Ultima
Meditation=>State of Nothingness=>Issen and Rage Explosion=>Death Ougi are very important systems because basically they make use of your character’s temper. Depending on temper, character benefits more from one system or another; like for Enja the only way is to use rage-related branch of gameplay, and for Ukyo its meditation-related branch.
State of Nothingness is the “ultimate attack” of meditation branch, because you can catch opponent anywhere with it, slowing his recoveries like 3 times so he will be unable to block for some time if he didnt blocked already before State of Nothingness. This was pretty broken and abused in SS5; so in SS5sp duration of State of Nothingness was cut down, and its counterpart (Death Ougi) was introduced, which is the “ultimate counter” the rage branch offers against meditation branch, once opponent is able to use State of Nothingness, you are able to use Death Ougi, which has built-in dash, highest priority in game I think, meaning it will also pass through most of attacks found in game and can only be blocked. If not blocked, it will instant kill the opponent.
If you think Death Ougi should not be implemented, then you can dish out all other rage attributes because going meditation branch would be beneficial altogether and rage attributes would be completely abandoned in high-level play. Basically thats what happens with Rei spirits in Tenka, it is only picked for meditation branch, and only beneficial for calm characters
@ Abster
Because of many SNK Playmore retcons, I treat their storylines as separate ones from SNK ones, it makes understanding of story much easier. From what I readed from SS6 storyline, its basically a dream match with storyline slapped on, and its safe to say its mostly uncanon except for some new details and info on characters, but that is questionable too. What game tries to do is to make an amalgam of SS1,2,3,4,5 story elements with all bosses coming at once, and parts of endings and story elements from all those games popping everywhere. Each character’s storyline gets some outcome, basically, but because of “win the tourney and we’ll grant any your wish” setting, all characters packed together, and toned down violence/no fatalities it feels alot like Mortal Kombat Armageddon ("defeat Blaze and your wish comes true/you get super power/or something else handy, all characters tossed togeter, and no character-specific fatalities)… Well at least SNKP doesnt tries to make SS6 the canon entry.
Gameplay-wise SS6 is strange because while attempting to be SS Anthology at its own (sorry for the pun), with all characters+all storylines+all spirit modes, it fails to grasp classic SS gameplay and atmosphere, lol
What does it matter if it doesn’t “feel” like SS gameplay? (Which is something I don’t really agree with…aside from lowering damage across the board, much smoother controls, and buffing up the defense of weaker characters like Mina and Iroha a bit too much).
Gameplay-wise it suffered as well, arcade version had pursuit to grab loop for three characters, and all versons have opponent pushed towards you when you combo him in the back, flipped weapon can fly beyond the border of screen (Amakusa is famous for exploiting this), overall recovery system feels much different. Low tiers are complete trash, basically (unlike previous game).
But its a well-known fact that Tenka is embraced by people without previous SS experience, I suppose its ok for casuals
