I’ll grant that, but also with the caveat that on Heavenly Spirits, people who are good in both state they think Special is more balanced.
Both games have a bit of system-fu in them. I do think the System stuff dominates less in Special then GG though- since you can really only system-fu once per match in Special. I think that also leads to some strategic depth, since picking the round to blow your meter in and when is important. A lot of the good players disagree on when to use stuff- and it is very character dependent. For example, playing against Yunfei can really screw up your strategy due to his DP+K grab. Haohmaru and Sogetsu’s DM’s being rageable also changes things. (that was removed in Tenka I think)
As for Tenka, the balance is not fully developed yet, but usually balance in games tends to get worse as knowledge gets increased, not better- but it’s still early enough for nothing to be certain. Can’t wait for the release of the set.
the tiering in SST is really in flux… the tops are Mina, Amakusa, Iroha… so actually there is a top three in this game too… you have characters that can compete with the three but its still a battle (much like third strike)…
I think the biggest reason Mina moved up in tier was the damage being vastly reduced in Tenka. Her whole game is based on whittling you down, in Special- the higher damage meant you could die in two hits/combos. In Tenka, it takes more, so beating Mina takes more work. She got upped in other areas as well which didn’t hurt.
Comparing those 3 to 3s isn’t fair. The countermatchups in Tenka are a lot nastier then 3S’s- Iroha/Mina/Amakusa have to work a lot harder in their matchups then Chun/Yun/Ken do in 3s.
i was merely stating that there are three characters that can run through like 90% of the cast with little to no problem at all… but yes the character counter matches are easy to win in SST than in third strike… this isn’t to take away from 3s as a game bc the same is true in that you can still win you just got to work harder for the win…
DG well ok its not a straight up loss but a good Kazuki will get in his range on A+B combos is like half screen and the combo moves him forward so its not like he has to try that hard… seriously the reason people eat Minas arrows so much is cause they try to run at her to trap her… patience is a virtue, just try walking up you’ve got all the time in the world.
Like who? Seriously, there’s maybe a handful of people in this country who know a whit about Guilty Gear.
If I ever see you say “system-fu” again, I will give you a wedgie the next time I see you.
Every game (and I mean EVERY GAME) is run by the system and the characters that either exploit it the best or can get around it. My suggestion would be to get over it. GG is like any other game; if the system completely ran it, there would be no point in picking different characters. Yes, you have to learn the system, yes there is a lot to it, but you exaggerate it to some ridiculous degree and the whole point of it is that by making the system robust enough to handle the kind of crazy shit that happens, you get to inject a lot more character variety.
Some games the system affects the gameplay a lot more then others. Why do you think crap like customs and VCs are complained about so much. Whereas a game like ST or SSVSP, the system doesn’t really affect things as much as the characters moves do.
I guess I’m a MOVEZ~! sort when it comes to fighters…
hey guys, i just got a copy of tenka in the mail yesterday. well, now i have the game, but i have no idea how anything works (button layout even). i checked the first post and was searching around and couldnt find any basic info. is there a “best place” for beginner stuff (and beyond)? (sadly: i even looked at gamefaqs and even they dont have an faq:sweat:)
I guess you didn’t read the last part of that paragraph. A lot of the cool moves in GG are a consequence of the system; if certain system aspects were not in place, those moves couldn’t be allowed because they would be way too powerful. But because of the presence of those system aspects, you can afford to put in something like that and it ends up making the game more interesting in the long run.
I for one prefer a robust system as opposed to a “moves” based fighter because the latter has way more room for creating character imbalances. System stuff is accessible to every character, for the most part. This is why stuff like CCs, while complained about, are usually not that big of a deal because everyone can do them, though there are a few exceptions.
There is nothing wrong with more stuff in a game as long as it adds to the experience without ruining the gameplay. But I think that’s enough of that debate for this thread. Definitely will talk more about SS series when I can actually play it regularly (I’m not playing Tenka, I dislike it).
The problem with universal system is that often some characters can abuse them way more then others. Take the Alpha system- if you took the Customs and Variables out, Bison would be a lot higher then he is, because outside of shit tier characters like Birdie, Bison’s the only decent character who can’t use the system well.
In systems- you have to take every characters use of the system into account, which means the imbalance potential is higher.
With a more character-based approach,you have the chance of one character ruining the game, but things can be evaluated more as a whole. I think Yuki gets the balance right though- they make a system, but limit its use enough to where it doesn’t dominate.
P.S. to supplement what homeboy is saying about the spirit system Sword is the default spirit and every spirit he talks about goes in order moving to the right
Kazuki is all about punishment sooo when i was referring to someone being patient i was referring to using the AB combo on punishment… which means not going head to head with Mina’s 3B… i also hate that fuckin notation BS…
this means the Kazuki will be mixing up throws, low attacks and med pokes to bait the proper response… and if you ask “what if the Mina player decides to turtle?” my response to you will be “what good Mina doesn’t turtle? Thats what the throw mix up is for”
P.S. sorry if this sounds biting but i just woke up and im going to school so im in a hurry
and that negates my point how? If she tries to counter poke or throw which was the desired response BTW… she eats a AB combo…
shes really only a threat from a distance… up close shes a threat on wake up while in defensive crouch… if you’re on the attack up close against a Mina you have the initiative…
I would also like to add that i was referencing Ken Mina vs Ten Kazuki and the reasoning behind (the Beef of it if you will) is bc Ken Spirit doesn’t allow for POW burst which is really a disadvantage against you when someone can do a combo that will end your life with one simple and long poke… that may not sound like a huge disadvantage but it is especially in the clutch when its the final round and you’ve managed to whittle your opponent down to a fraction of life and you fuck up once there goes half you life and you’re down to square one… POW burst would easily negate that… but you choose Ken Mina cause you loved that unblockable set up so much now you got to eat a 40% combo…
Not sure if this is news or not, but it’s looks like Samurai Shodown has been added to the roster of SNKs USA releases. Can’t wait to get my hands on the Anthology and SEN.
They don’t play Tenka since they prefer Special netplay- due to getting better comp that way, but they would switch to Tenka for comp even if they don’t like it as much. No one in that community hates Tenka- most of the hate is directed towards 3. A couple of the players are Chinese nationals going to school in the US, who play it offline over the summer- then raise the game a bit when they get back.
An other issue with the community is most of them don’t play a lot of other games. SS players tend to really hate other fighters to the point of snobbishness at times- I remember that in the old Scrubcade days as well, so it’s not a recent phenomenon.
I know one of the top guys said he’d hit Evo North if they ran Tenka. DG has also talked to Vansibel, who’s considered the best player on the site.
i remember reading somewhere in the HeavenlySpirits forum that “Tenka is alright as a game itself, but utterly fails as a SamSho game”
LOL… whats funny to me is i can see the reasoning behind this, but i think that reasoning is also why i love this game so much… its soooo different from all the other SS games yet there is a sense of familiarity to it… i think the biggest complaint is how damage is meet… honestly SST feels more like a capcom game to me then a SNK game… and to me thats a good thing but i’ve always had love for the SS series since 2
how does any of that matter specifically vs mina over any other character when she would have a option to beat both the mid he wants to land (ab) and dashing in to throw? the entire reason why kazuki is ever argued back to a tier is because of mina
I can say that from talking to and playing this once with the Triad, they felt the same way. I enjoyed the game, but since I have no one to play it with, what’s the point?
I’ll say this- Yuki is probably given the success of their games critically, the best fighting game maker in the business right now.