Samurai Shodown Anthology

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
741

Hmm, lets compare
-Level of polish: Warriors Rage 2 loses by character model polygon count; Sen loses by monotonous gameplay. I mean, theres alot of comments where Sen’s gameplay is compared to Toshinden games, so my guess is both games are somewhat even by level of polish.
-Graphics: Sen wins, no discussion
-SS style: Both games have it.
-Violence: Both games have red blood, yet only Sen has dismemberments, albeit same to all chars, so Sen wins there
-Number of classic characters: Sen wins…well its not like they play like classic character there, but at least they look like ones.
-Concepts of new characters: Warriors Rage 2 new character concepts are great and somewhat original, in Sen they are more generic, like a generic type of warrior from every country; a cowboy, a viking, a spearman, an armored knight, etc. Sen new character weapons are generic too; so WR 2 wins.
-Movelists: Warriors Rage 2 has diverse movesets, with around 10 special moves and with 2 supers per character. Character playstyles are very diverse in WR2; Sen has basically nothing, few specials and no supers, and Sen has no fireballs. All Sen characters play in same fashion, aka set up a juggle. Both games have alt stances it seems. Overall, WR2 wins.
-Storyline: Warriors Rage 2 has one of most in-depth storylines in SS games, with story paths events happening altogether (like each walkthrough shows you part of whats happening, and you can see the grand scheme of events combined at japanese website), alot of dialogs and backstories, Storyline FMV movies. WR2 story is also the part of game’s canon. Sen story is uncanon, somewhat simple (princess runs away, everyone pursues her to catch her, and her evil uncle/final boss wants to get her sword), has almost no dialogs, and even text-based endings like in SS3 without pictures. WR2 endings had 6-8 pictures in them for each character. WR2 wins
-Gameplay: WR2 has somewhat complex gameplay which is based on several types of stuns/staggers, hit types changing on counterattack, four different types of Weapon Deflect, jumps of variable height, air recovery, okizeme, etc. It also supports weapon flipping, sword clash competition and other classic elements involving weapons. Gameplay is strictly 2D. Sen has canned combo strings and juggle combos, mainly. Sen’s gameplay is like in 3D fightings, and Sen also has no weapon flipping; so by features, WR2 gameplay wins
-Online support: Both games have it, Sen via XBOX Live, WR2 via Kaillera.
-Unlockables: In WR2 you can unlock 12 chars, mission mode, extra options for vs mode, pictures in picture gallery, FMV movies in movie gallery, etc. In Sen you can unlock Draco and Golba.
-Secrets (in classic SS game fashion like Galford summoning 3 puppies on perfect win etc): WR2 has intro pose select, win pose select, 2 hidden costumes for Minto, and Mugenji’s butterfly summon feature. To my knowledge, Sen has nothing.
-Additional stuff released: WR2 has a soundtrack, CD drama, official manga, alot of artworks, sketches, and plastic figurines of several characters released. Sen has only soundtrack and Suzuhime half-naked figures, and you also can buy plastic replica of her sword. So far WR2 wins.

So WR2 gets 7 points and Sen gets 3

742

I finally got to watch SBO04 (2006) ss6 tournament. I found a wierd team in this tournament. Thier team name is USA and thier names are SHIN(suija) and tovy(galford). Are they actully from usa? Man this tovy guy has a great galford. Maybe best ive seen in ss6. If they are from usa how did they get inn sbo for ss6 when ss6 never came out in usa?

743

dito

744

I played SSWR2 strictly for the reason of reviewing and researching it for my article on Kurt’s site.

That game was horrible. And it was sad too, because it had so much potential. I don’t even care about the ass graphics; I’ll accept it because at least the background design was good. The music was great. The character designs…unfamiliar, but I could stomach it. Overall presentation was good.

The problem was the gameplay. What happened…it just makes all the good points completely irrelevant.

Anyways, if WR2 honestly beats out Sen, then Sen must be one of the worst games conceived. Real talk.

745

WR2 gameplay is bad from perspective of classic SS gameplay, this is because you need to learn that game uses different sets of rock-paper-scissors tactics when compared with normal samsho. For example after blocked hit, you should punish with kick to stagger opponent, and you would always want to use crouching kick cause its safer and faster than standing one, however opponent can bait you into using crouching kick, and punish it with crouching strong slash - and crouching strong slash gains juggle starter property on counterhit against crouching attacks. Then again, opponent should learn juggle patterns that come off that (since most characters can juggle start only on counterhit like that).

Then game is heavy oriented on weapon deflects, since a number of characters can go at you in same fashion as SS4/SS5sp Tam Tam when he presses you with weak slash, and main way to retaliate is weapon deflect.

Then, game has 3 ways of high-low game, first comes from fact that characters have a standing overhead slash, second from the fact that you can use low jump to execute air attacks closer to ground (getting basically same thing you do with BC in 2D games), and third is done with kicks: thrust kick staggers crouch-blocking opponent. Crouching attacks are used as lows in all 3 cases of course.

I should also note that combos in the game are pretty fun, well of course after you learn them. The problem is that most players were done with game before they got the chance to research gameplay features.

746

Can someone link me to some good SS2 match vids?

747

Shishioh

> 1. Game is pretty trash compared to SS games now.

Nope. It’s only competition is SS0S, though that’s mostly by default, since SNK fucked up the series after 2 and they spent the next 4 games (I’m ignoring the 3D ones) trying to bring it back to the heights reached by SS2.

> And the way you go into rage was so fucking stupid and annoying(For the one who went into it/and the opponent) as it messes up vital points of retaliation most of the time. Pretty much the one of the reasons I have a love/hate relationship with Halfmoon in MeltyBlood AA.

Oh, the auto invincibility? Annoying, yes. Never said SS2 was perfect. Not a deal breaker though.

> 2. Running throws have a missed animation which you can punish in later games to make them learn not to do it so much so that’s a moot point and like you told me"Your own fault"if you get killed like that.

Only SS0S and SS6 have the missed animation, and you’ll note I specified SS3/4 as the ones with the abusive throws.

> 3. I know you still play SF 2 because most people who play that to this day still think SamSho 2 is acceptable as the best SamSho because they have a lot in common.

What’s your point? Age/popularity has nothing to do with greatness.

> Moral of the story is: Play your game and I’ll play mine.

Fair enough, but when you make dumbass statements like “Random scrubs killing you with random slashes that take huge chunks of energy off+get you dizzy. Risk/reward was pretty fucked up in that game IMHO.”, which just plain shows that you suck at the series, be prepared to get called out on it.

Black Shroud:

New Chapter of Blade has combos? Wow, I’m shocked. I played that with Haohmaru and Hanzo and I remember killing people in 3 hits (Haoh more than Hanzo), 1 hit per life segment (one of the many MANY shitty innovations that game experimented with; it wasn’t a good idea in Killer INstinct and Vampire Saviour, and it sure as hell wasn’t good in New Chapter of Blade).

zer0kage:

As awful as Sen is, I don’t think it can compare to WR2/New Chapter of Blade. All the good points that Black Shroud listed are overwhelmed by the GIGANTIC flaws, namely the awful AWFUL gameplay. Sen’s worst flaw is that is has “Samurai Shodown” in the title; if they had named it something else entirely, an tried to pass it off as a new game with some SS guest characters, it wouldn’t be so bad.

748

Man, learn to use the quote button.

  1. 2 is bad by today’s standards and at least I have listed some reasons why.

  2. Burst was sloppy and pissed me and a whole lot of people off. Deal breaker there.

  3. You seem to forget that 5 special has 100% combos that start from a single front hit. Get over the throwing aspect in 3/4 please.

  4. I still don’t see what’s so great about 2 since you won’t elaborate.

  5. You called me out but you didn’t prove anything…yeah. I’m pretty good at 4 and up so I’m pretty sure I would not qualify as sucking at the series when I play more than you apparently. Maybe you suck at it, right?

If you don’t want 2 to be exposed/defamed, don’t throw unjustified hate on the others in the series because a vast majority in this thread seems to like the later games a little more.

749

:sweat: actually, WR2 is a combo-based game. Here are examples for basic chars

Haito
B/d+B, dp+Slash (powered), qcf+B, Issen
Hanzo
qcf+AB, A, qcf+AB, B, dp+C
Haohmaru
rdp+D, B, B, rdp+D, B, Air B, dp+Slash
Garyo
d+B, qcf+A, qcf+B, qcf+C
Jin-Emon
B, hcb+C, air B, AB, Weapon Flipper
Jushiro
Weapon Flipper, hcf+C, B
Ran Po
far qcf+A, Weapon Flipper (f,hcf+B, dp+B), d+B, Secret Ougi, Pursuit, Issen
Rinka
rdp+Slash x2, qcf+Slash, B/d+B, dp+Slash, rdp+Slash x2, qcf+Slash, B/d+B, Weapon Flipper
Saya
B/d+B, Secret Ougi (dp+B,hcb+D,dd+B), qcf+C, dp+C, Issen
Seishiro
Weapon Flipper, qcf+Slash, qcf+B
Yaci
(qcb+A counterhit / qcb+B), (B/d+B), qcf+A/qcf+B, B/d+B, qcb+A, jump in, qcf+A/qcf+B, B/d+B, qcb+A

About killing people in 3 hits, thats for SS3 not for WR2. In WR2 there are 3 lifebars per match and you cant empty any of those with 1 hit.

Dunno, everyone bitches at this game but I think it has alot of unique tools, that allow for interesting things/tactics that arent available to use in other SS games.

750

Umm…what? PSX WR is a piece of steaming SHIT! I know because I (regretfully) own the game, and it’s just a wonky/clunky “3D” mess. Hitboxes are messed up, some moves seem to work half the time, priorities are just all over the place, and even the control is a bitch most of the time (i.e. Tohma).

Also, why are there so many “clones”? Did Yuda need to have the same movelist as Yaci AND Mugenji? Man, fuck that! Lazy SNK… :bluu:

751

I havent said that its gameplay is polished, but neither is Sen’s (or SS3’s to that matter), and we started talking comparing the game to Sen.

Yes game requires correct move inputs or special moves wont work, so you cant mash and get the moves. I should note that keyboard is more correct when it comes to inputting moves and as I play on emulator and use keyboard, I dont have much issues with controls, and with Tohma too, to that matter. Anyway theres no merit in playing this game on original PSX since emulator provides various graphical tweaks and netplay support.

About matter of "clones"
Game has 13 main characters, and other are deemed as “Extra” characters, that are there for the sake of storyline (since storyline involving 28 chars is considerably deeper than if there were 13 chars). Nevertheless on high level play you get to know that extra characters do have gameplay difference from their movelist counterparts (and of course they all have different stats/defence etc).

Yuda, Yaci and Mugenji have three distinct gameplay styles: Yuda is mid-ranged fighter with halfscreen range high/low game thanks to his very very long sword and normals that reach half screen distance; Yaci is all about keepaway as his normals push opponent back + his fireball has special stagger property (out of each connected pair of his fireballs, first one will always stagger opponent so you can combo off it, whereas second will not) + he has longest ranged stun slash in game. Mugenji excels in long combos so he is basically strictly close range fighter, this is thanks to him having cancellable normal that brings him close to opponent, and has biggest defence in game.

Mugenji also has butterfly trick meaning of which I need yet to figure. Basically if Mugenji empties green lifebar of opponent with Issen, and then manages to survive next 15 seconds without taking damage and without completely emptying yellow lifebar of opponent, butterfly will come from sky and sit on opponent for few moments, then fly away.

752

Ok so i know the PSP version is crap, but what about the PS2 Anthology’s version of SS6?

Looks pretty decent to me.

753

I say go for it. The core gameplay is still basically intact for every game in there, so it’s a collector’s dream come true. The loading times in SS VI are a minor bother, really.

BTW, my SS VI quote FAQ is up at GameFAQs, so you guys can go take a look. :tup:

754

Hey good job, Lantis. I’ve always been curious since I’ve never played any English version of Tenka.

Although it’s Andrew JACKSON, not Johnson. Big difference.

EDIT:

Okay, I’ve actually started to read…what the fuck.
Who is responsible for this translation?

755

You should go into the Tenka training mode and try to read the groove explanations. Hilarious.

It’s worse than a google translation.

756

Yes SNK translations were always worse than google ones, I cant imagine what people do they hire in their overseas translation department. Considering bad in-game movelist translations, I want to mention that I started an SS6 guide from my SS guide series you all probably know (they arent hosted on gamefaqs cause they are not in txt format; I host them on my site instead), but honestly, I gave up before completely finishing it since I wasnt too interested (lack of scene where I live + lack of netplay)

Quick description:

As for movelists, now it misses final versions oftranslations of following characters’ movesets:
Rimururu
Shizumaru
Rera
Mina
Kusaregedo
And completely misses translations of Kim Ung Che, Poppy, Champuru, Paku Paku, Shikuru & Mamahaha, Demon Gaoh

All other characters have completed translated movelists; however they may lack some notes about terms used in translations.

It also has quick rundown of the system but some things are missing (descriptions of animal/demon/matsuri spirits, minor details like different length recovery rolls etc)

I uploaded the latest version of guide as it is at http://samuraishodown.kilu.de (Dojo Section), but as I tell you its unfinished

757

About bad translations of samurai shodown…its not on purpose?:confused:

758

I’m aware WR2 is a combo based fighter and I see what they attempted to do with the system; I’m not calling it bad compared to “SS standards” (whatever that means) but a bad (to be more clear; boring and lifeless) gameplay system period.

Unlike other fanboys in this thread (they know who they are) I look at the games as part of the SS series, yes, but I also take into account separately their value as games alone.

As a guy that plays a very large amount of fighters I like to think its something I do do honestly.

BTW, I learned the combos and system when I owned the game (both emulated and original). I played Mikoto and Hoah.

I have to agree; I loved the presentation, story, setting. All sat well with me, but the gameplay is just lazy. I really wanted to like the game but it just doesn’t work. Get save file and unlock everything in the galleries, that’s where the value lies, but actually playing it is really a hassle.

Its so bad that when I captured screens for the game to use for my article, I lamented going though and at first just thought of capturing shots of Mikoto in training mode; that’s how bad I didn’t want to bother playing the game anymore.

Its a bad sign when I would have to look to using a keyboard to compensate for its input problems.

To be honest the game really does have a bunch of gameplay clones; I don’t really mind in the grand scheme of things, and they do have differences but its really nitpicky - bottom line is it was laziness; and there is no reason for people like yuga (give him his style in 64 or 64-2 back, something similar) to share the same moves as the tower guardian and the gay mercenary.

And yes I know according to storyline reasons he lost his memory and all that, but that’s still not a good excuse.

I greatly respect your view on SS, but like SS6 we will have to agree to disagree; I honestly gave that game a chance like I do every other and I got nothing but boredom and frustration out of its “system”.

759

:rofl:

Guilty of something?! LOL!

Fuck it, it’s hard enough to be a SamSho player in the USA as it is but it gets even harder when we are divided by by the games themselves…

760

Particularly about Yuda character:
He doesnt exactly belongs to main storyline of game (Three Blades of Domination, Kuki brothers, etc), his character is basically there to give some closure to SS64/2 story arc, wheres most of characters in game participate in new story arc about revolt. Based on that they decided not to make him one of main chars, but instead one of extra characters.

Definition of extra characters (all unlockables aside of Tohma, Mikoto, Kuno Seishiro) in the game is basically that they play some role in storyline/dialogs and could be simple dialogue-only NPC like Nakoruru, Namino, Cyobisuke, etc, but were expanded beyond that and given some moveset so you could actually play them and learn their part of storyline. So basically if Garyo is a Kuma, then Tashonmao is a Panda, etc. Those chars are also comparable to similar characters in SC1 (Astaroth/Rock, Kilik/Seung Mina, Sophitia/Lizardman etc)

And yes he cant summon his 7 weapons because storyline-wise the merge in his SSAZ ending gave him an unstable body and sent him 20 years forward via dimensional rift, and he lost his memory. This is important aspect because
1)It provides him place in the Yuga’s scheme (summon him to destroy Mikoto’s soul and provide full control of her body to Yuga".
2)It allows shogunate branch to take control of him and so provides him a place in the Ritenkyo conspiration plot.
3)It provides storyline reasons for Hanmen no Asura and Shiki to appear in the dialogs/endings (as Hanmen no Asura’s spirit accompanies Yuda)
4)It allows us to see his fireball from SSAZ OVA as an actual special move
5)It allows introduction of awesome FMV movie where his lost memories are shown. This is arguably best looking FMV in game.
6)It allows bit of reuniting with his weapons in his ending, and is the only place in samsho where you can seem their real demon forms.

So all in all Yuda as character serves his purpose pretty well as he is now (considering he is a “quick storyline-wrapping character that then disappears never to be seen again”). As for "why he shares the same moves as the tower guardian and the gay mercenary’, basically what is common among three is that they all can be classified as ruthless assassins, so their moveset can be classified as “Assassin”; each of them has own justifications on using special moves based on graphical effects - like Yaci has dagger on his back, so he throws daggers, Mugenji has a hairpin in his hair so he throws hairpins, Yuda has remnants of magical power so ge throws fireballs; same with other moves.