slow down. 64 did wow me. Just wasn’t really on my oh shit son list.
The part where Sakurai tries to justify random tripping is all you need to say that this game was not meant to be competitive. Everything else IMO is just supportive arguments.
It’s one thing to turn an original party game into something alternatively more serious. It’s another to deliberately hurt that alternative and enforce the original view.
Stop talking about “dumb the game down”. It isn’t about dumbing it down, it’s about ‘sorry you got unlucky and died because of something random that you have no control over’. Fighting games are rock paper scissor, while smash is a coin toss. In rps you can read your opponent and make educated guesses and win more than you lose, while in a coin toss you can’t. This is slightly unfair for smash since there is still some degree of skill involved, but Sakurai’s goal is so that if you win enough coin tosses, it doesn’t matter how good your opponent is, you win. He also wants it to be in a funny way, which I would assume includes tripping and a random bomb falling on you, both of which I would find hilarious the first time I see them in a non-competitive environment. Mission accomplished I guess. None of this means that it can’t be played competitively.
I think I better stop reading this thread. With the level of moronacity in this thread I might get brain damage, and possibly banned if I stay here too long.
I really hope that was meant to be ironic because if not…lol.
I guess “dumbing down the game” is probably the wrong expression, but to many players who enjoyed the extreme depth of melee it feels like he put intentional road blocks to more skilled players. If you move to fast on the ground because of the speed of your fingers, you trip. If an opponent messes up his positioning on recovery, you don’t get to punish him for it because he snaps to the ledge.
I really don’t have a problem though with what Sakurai has done to the game. Depth can still be found and explored, and slowly evolve the game. I understand though why some players who worked very hard at melee feel like they got a slap in the face. Just have patience with the game though, melee’s potential took a long time to fully discover.
Hyper Fighting, Super Turbo, & Samurai Shodown just said “sup”.
I mean, those games have combos, but often they’re not that important. You can watch entire high-level matches without a single combo.
Haha and it wasn’t even their original game, either! 
So basically, teh creator wants all items all stages.
Thanks Japan, thats what I thought you meant & I agree (mostly)
Although zoning, proper spacing, and rushdown are emphasized more then combos in ST I was still under the impression that combos in ST were key. The high damage output of the game encourage use of combos and pressure strings heavily and most top level vids i’ve seen support that, otherwise I agree with HF and SS not being combo oriented.
Anyways back on topic; why the fuck is this thread still up? We all play smash because it’s fun and we make it competitive regardless of what anyone especially sakurai says that’s really all their is to it. Gamers have always taken the developers vision of how their game “should” be played and molded it into something completely different, that’s not going to change anytime soon so why bother talking about it? Just play the damn game or don’t.
Sakurai made Brawl to what Smash Brothers was originally intended to be.
A party game.
Not a hardcore competitive fighting game.
ALL multi-player Nintendo games are meant to be party games.
It could also be that people haven’t learned to deal with the defensive options yet. Air dodges and rolls and all that are punishable. You just don’t get a free ride on offense is all.
Skill is very much still a part of this game. Sakurai’s randomness factor will NEVER be part of any game ever. Skill will always come into play no matter how hard he tries. The thing is, good players adapt no matter what. Unless the game is completely random rock paper scissors or something, it just doesn’t matter. Even with shit like tripping and final smashes. Good players get up from the trip asap and keep fighting. Bad players will sit there going WTF? and get smashed on the face. Good players will guard the final smash, get to it first, or just keep the other guy from it. Sakurai is a pussy. He’s probably had his ass kicked in his own games one too many times.
I don’t think the game will devolve though. Lots of advanced techniques have been found in the game. More will come. It hasn’t even been out a damn month and we’ve already got half as many advanced techniques as Melee. If you give it time, give it a chance, you’ll see many many more.
Brawl is a BETTER competitive game as it is now than Melee. Good smart play is rewarded and you don’t have to be a tech heavy guru to succeed. You just have to out think your opponent. Execution shouldn’t get in the way of two minds. I think it’s better that it’s easier to play actually. You’ll see a lot more good players appearing and there’ll be quite a lot more competition this way than in Melee where you had to have tons of practice before you could even compete, even with a good mind for fighting games.
So yeah. Go back to losing to Snake :lol:
j/k. ORAMI?!
Oh also don’t make posts talking shit about a game and then end the post with “but I’m not talking shit about the game, let’s just discuss guys”. If you have an opinion, then stick to it and don’t try to cushion it to avoid flames.
I’m curious. (Black)
Since the discussion part has already been addressed (since your own initial post actually), I would like to take the chance to ask you (and people like you) a particular question. I don’t mean this as attack, because I’m honestly quite curious, but I will say now that you may find it offensive:
If Brawl looks so decidely hopeless already, then why don’t you (and the others) simply go back to playing Melee right now?
As I just said, this isn’t meant as the usual “get-the-fuck-out-of-here” attack, especially since you seem(ed) like one of the more reasonable people from SWF. It is merely a curious question I’ve had since so many people that talk about how “slow” and “campy” Brawl seem to forget that hasn’t even been a month or two since it came out and Melee still right there, waiting to “save them” if they let it.
I mean, it’s not like older games aren’t played with communities. As I understand it, one of the biggest things at EVO is ST, which is like, what, 15 years old? I mean, I know that Capcom has taken forever to announce Street Fighter IV, but it’s not like we’ve just been playing only Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike–the new game besides Capcom Fighting Jam (or whatever it was called) IIRC–the entire time. Hell, even the amount of wait between Melee and Brawl has been the same wait period as 3S and SF4 since they both game out in 2001, except that you already have your full new game and then lament about not being capable in the first two months or so and say it’s impossible to break.
I just can’t understand why the people that want to play Melee keep acting like it’s dead when it can still live alongside Brawl instead of either keeping to bash on Brawl, rarely for legitimate reasons, or trying to make it into Melee 2.0: High Gravity Edition.
And while I don’t really expect a reply, since I’m sure you rarely post on SRK comparative to SWF, if you do take time out to reply, please don’t simply post with bullshit that says you “still have hope for the game and Bowser er…Boozer”.
Please.
Of all the people from SWF that post here regularly, the only that seems anywhere near hopeful is alphazealot. (And maelstrom, I guess, but he actually seems to post on SRK as much as he does SWF so…)
P.S. If you do decide to go back to Melee and “Boozer”, then I honestly hope you can have fun with, especially if “Melee still had things that were being discovered”. Don’t let it die.
Just don’t try and be all high-and-mighty and tell people not to play a game that they like.
I mean, I hate 3S nowadays, but I’ve never trolled the 3S forums or gone out of my way to post in that part of forum just to say it’s “slow” and “campy”.
when you italicize every game’s title it makes you look really stupid and pretentious
That is what you’re supposed to do with the title of most things when so available.
I’m sorry that I’m trying to keep my English from degrading on the Internet like everyone else’s. I already make to many typos as it is because of the Internet.
(Are you going to get mad at me for capitalizing “the Internet”?)
I thought it was a good post, *Damned. * I agree, if people like gimpy don’t like Brawl, then christ, go back to Melee and stop shitting on our game that we enjoy. A lot of people play Brawl because they enjoy the gameplay more than Melee’s. It’s not surprising really. Half the time I get the feeling that a lot of the people that complain about Brawl and want everyone to go back to melee do so because they invested so much time into melee learning glitches and the games nuances and are just trying desperately to hold onto that little edge they had.
A lot of people with the anti Brawl sentiment also seem victim of mass hysteria and opinion. I’m sure if the pros all came out and said “wow we love Brawl it’s so balanced and amazing and better than melee could ever be”, all the little nut huggers would be right there with them. It makes me sick.
So yeah, just let it go. Brawl will succeed with or without you.
I don’t believe that brawl has no potential to be competitive and fun.
I actually think that given time it’s going to be maybe even more competitive and complex than melee. I headed over here from SWF because…let’s face it, it has become hectic and out of control, and people seem to be a hell of a lot more reasonable here.
Everybody is looking for techs to make brawl as close to melee as possible, when it should be gradually built up into a different game (which it is.) I’m not playing Melee for at least 10 years because Brawl is fucking awesome. I’m not worried about the games future or complaining about it, just discussing/ranting on Sakurai’s and Nintendo’s intentions and philosophies.
ST is one of the most hideously boring competitive fighters around and the Samurai Shodown scene ain’t exactly cracking.
Honestly, a lot of Smash players are doing just that. Many others are playing both because they enjoy Melee more but still have some hope that Brawl may evolve eventually. The thing is, Brawl has created a huge amount of divisiveness in the Smash community. Many people were anticipating Brawl for years and are now extremely disappointed. Right now we’re looking at a very realistic possibility that, even if Brawl does take off competitively, Melee will stay alive as a thriving competitive game.
When I watch ST in play I find it quite exciting. More sweeping statements please, those make your post ten times better.
As for Melee sticking around, good for them. They can go play that instead of whining so much about Brawl.
Shut up boy.
I’ll rape your shits in Brawl and ST.
God, when it comes down to it, whether or not you find something exciting is subjective. With your stuckup attitude, anyone should be called out for finding something boring. Troll more please. Honestly though, I would bet money that more people find fast, extremely dramatic games like Smash and Marvel more exciting than a slow, and often tedious one like ST.
All I know is, I have never seen a match of Smash, Guilty Gear or Marvel anywhere near as boring as this: [media=youtube]9R0sgOaJvMU[/media]