I get roasted so bad by E. Hondas its horrible. Im learning the match up more but its def hard.
I also have problems with chun Li. She has a jumping kick that just seems to beat my tiger uppercut like 60% of the time and the other 40& is trades.
Word. That is was I was talking about in my last post. Any good players have any advice?
Yeah I mean the trade is in my favor, and thats great except it feels like i never get it.
Jab headbutt going through fb’s makes it a lot easier for him to get in but the match is still in your favor if you zone him with your fb’s and turtle, don’t forget jab hb goes shorter so take advantage and throw another fb after he recovers. Staying far away limits hondas options and now that handslaps has a vulnerable hitbox in front of it it’s very easy to dp him out of it if he tries it.
Sagat is the least combo oriented character in st he relies on using high low fb mixups to chip the opponent and bait jumps to dp so he can go back to pressuring with fb’s all over again. He’s all about zoning so concentrate on predicting what the opponent will do; if you think he’s going to jump forward be ready to fierce dp him, if you think he’ll jump straight up in anticipation of a low fb you fierce fb him and so on. Only when you get good at out yomiing your opponent should you try to combo and trust me the more you use gat the easier it gets to out yomi your opponent. You start seeing patterns that work and tendencies many players have and after a while it just becomes natural to instantly punish a player for jumping in too much, or for blocking too much, or for trying to win a fb war with you.
Yes he only has one throw and it doesn’t have great range nor is he a fast walker so it’s easier to tech then say vega’s throw but the occasional j lk tick into throw is useful if they’re blocking in anticipating of a fb (think yomi.)
What’s awesome about gat in sthd is although his fb’s are nerfed they’re still really good to turtle with or you can be hyper aggressive thanks to the new and much improved tk but personally I prefer a “careful harassment/aggression”.
A basic pressure string as far as his normals go is cr mk, cr mk, rh fb or jumpin rh, tk, cr mk into tk’s if cr mk hits or if blocked rh fb. When you talk about mixups for gat it’s usually for his fb’s not his normals though for example a basic fb pressure string can be rh, rh, fp or meaty lk into rh which has to be blocked if you time the meaty lk fb right and so on…you’ll figure this out on your own.
Fb mixups and baiting jumpins is how sagat won in st and that still applies in remix but now he has a tk that juggles which is very very useful and can grant several advantages if used correctly. Always do rh tk’s I don’t see any reason to use mk or lk over the rh and like your dp’s try to do them late although the priority on tk is average so experiment on what jumpins it beats/loses to. When timed right you can use tk to hop over fb’s and once you get good at this the opponent will think twice about throwing one at you which is something you can take advantage of in any way you see fit.
If you hit the opponent with tk you can juggle up to 3 hits so if the first and second ones only hit once each you can do a third but most of the time 2 tk’s will be 3 hits but even then you can do a third tk before they hit the ground it just won’t hit them. You can even do a 4th tk after the 3rd one whether it whiffs or not to crossover the opponent while they’re on the ground! So other then doing good damage tk is great for building meter, pushing your opponent into the corner, and occasionally crossing over the opponent to confuse them.
That’s all the info on sagat that I know of I hope that helps and you can play me on xbl any time since finals is this week I’ll be having more time to play sthd:woot:
Edit: If you’re kind of close to the opponent and you think they’re going to fb you then punish them with jumpin rh. The super is very unsafe to use it only as an AA and do it very early otherwise it will whiff and go through the opponent leaving you vulnerable.
TU never had that good priority but it’s not bad either if jumpins are beating it out cleanly that means you’re doing it too early. Blanka’s j lk is a bitch to dp so on that I like to use jab dp since it’s safer.
I hope the advice I posted above helps you with honda just remember hondas jab headbutt doesn’t go very far and it’s a charge move so take advantage of those fast fb’s!
Also DO NOT dp if the opponent jumps in from full screen because yours will just barely whiff and leave you vulnerable for punishment (in this situation you AA with mp fb) so use those fb’s to close the distance and bait the inevitable jumpin because the opponent isn’t going to let you chip them all day and being ready to dp on reaction is how sagat gets his damage.
Hope the advice posted above helps I’m decent with sagat but no john choi lol still if you or anyone wants my help getting good with gat I’d be glad to help and play some matches.
Can gat somehow lockdown from full screen away after hitting with slow low fb to prevent jumping? so far i think that he can’t (no s.fb will hit jumping opponents), any ideas here?
another thing i would like to clear is the jump in K i should use, for now i use RH most (if not all…) of times, but as i read here it seems that people tend to relay more on the mk version…
more to mention is that i have quite a problem to connect even combo like j.hk c.mk (the follow up is problematic too if i try to go for TK but one thing at time)
My memory from playing ken in the classic version was that it easier for me to connect the c.mk after j.mk compered to j.rh
your opinions there…
In sthd you can lockdown the opponent with fb’s for as long as you can out yomi them it’s that simple I mentioned that in my above post sagat is all about stepping up your yomi skills.
What reason is there to use j mk over rh? I use j lk if I plan to tick throw and I use j rh to tag an opponent during the startup of their fb’s or just for pressure but in general you shouldn’t be jumping that much you should use rh tk to advance on your opponent. A sagat that jumps too much is a scrubby sagat (unless your opponent can’t punish your constant jumping that is and expects you not to jump.)
If you’re having problems connecting off j rh that probably means you’re doing it too early.
probably yeah… but i hoped i that j.mk would give me easier time there…
anyway, i fine it hard to punish anticipated jumps from full screen away after they block slow low fb. (gat moves lose most of the time for simple j.rh)
Advise Taken
Ok so I took your advice, still having issues. Remember this is my first time really trying to get good at SF so I may be really weak on some basics.
My main problem is that when I tiger people they just fireball back. Now if I tiger and they jump in from almost a full screen away with like normal shoto’s, they can (almost) hit me with j.HK, which leads to the painful scrub combo j.HK c.HK. But if I jump at them, even though Sagat is like 7 foot, his j.HK has like 0 range. So I just get in these fireball trade off’s where no one really is winning, but they can jump in and hit me sooner then I can hit them (or am I crazy)?
Still trying to find a use for TK now… I mean I use it if i knock someone down to switch sides for a little confusion or occasionally over projectiles (sitll risky for me), it’s like tiger -> they jump in -> TU.
Some character specific problems too, like vega or dictator. Where they just sit there holding D/B I throw one tiger, they block, i throw another one, off the back wall and (if i’m lucky) I can TU them as they hit me, otherwise i just get hit. So I’m trading off with these chars (more so with vega) and fighting a slowly losing battle.
I dont know I just feel very predictable, if they jump over one tiger with someone like Honda they are in prime pouncing distance. Then they just sit there holding down back, and if i throw a tiger they just use his d/u move to go through it and hit me, or if i try to attack its just b/f or rapid hands. Ugh! Feel free to add me on xbox live and play me, my name is same as on this formum (kamui8899).
As i see it, you play gat, so u gonna have some hard times just like gif, just the opposite.
you almost have no tools to deal with anyone when they get close, no invulnerability moves, no 1k hands, no crazy, c.mk etc… if they got in, they had it half the way for the win thous, you must keep them out. and here, just as orchi (can i call you that? :P) said, the yomi begin, in Fb you should be able to win, try to start with slow one so you can get the faster one… well, faster. sometimes you might want to jump over their slow fb in order to throw on before they can. but the most important you mu at all cost predict their jump ins and counter, how? well if i knew the answer for every situation out their i would’ve been much better player…
but seriously, try various of things from TU, to s.rh or even well timed fb or tk, i guess that timing is all that matter here (i mean, after you got over that little prediction thingy)
hail the theory fight 
I see what you are saying. But then where is sagat’s advantage? I mean lots of other chars have FB and have decent close, if I’m just guessing FB and Uppercut why not use someone like ryu or ken whose uppercut has better priority? At this rate I feel I don’t fight any different then a scrub would… Just FB and try to tick the uppercut when someone jumps in…?
P.S. Sorry for all the negativity, I just like Sagat and am trying to make it work… Just at the moment not finding anything particularly special about him…
So to me, Sagat loses to Blanka horribly in this as it seems he can’t safely Tiger Shot Blanka safely. What can Sagat do here?
I ask those question myself every time i play, i wasn’t fan of gat in the ST days, cause new sagat sucked, and i didn’t know how to pick the old one (which was on soft ban anyway). but anyway, his advantages were in his crazy fbs and recovery from there, which is tuned down in the hd version. your recovery now is just as ryu’s i think, and of course, he can shout fbs which you can’t duck! but again, with well timed fb you can hit jumping opponent. and as i see it, yes gat is a turtle character, you may get even 20% of the damage as cheap if you yomi them well, and of course, you your TK, if they get to brave at mid range you get around 30% of their bar for no effort.
But as much as i talk, i hate fb’s fight like i hate spiders
and god i hate spiders
Sagat does have some interesting tools, basic FB vs FB with shoto is fast enough, that you can bait them into jumping, although, his jumping BACK RH has some nice reach, and can mess up shoto spacing.
Also, Slow High shot w/TK behind it is a great way to advance, your standing LK (short) is very fast, and can keep them defensive, the more I use CR.STR (MP) the more I like it as a poke, low shots to fast knees are nasty as all hell, keep a jab TU is the pipes to stuff jumpins, from standing you can out reach shoto normals ST.FRC (HP) is fuggin nasty, same goes for ST.FWD (MK), its real easy to get uber agressive with Sagat, but you have to watch out for shoto bait, a DP can still mess you up, but pokes/knees/shots and a solid cross up game can bust up a shoto pretty good (Even uber shoto Kuma cant handle dbl TK to the face.)
Point taken with standing LK and such, I haven’t tried that much, and some of the other things you mentioned. Still, what you said about Sagat’s tiger vs shoto FB, aren’t they the same speed in this version? Same amount of delay/speed after it comes out? Or am I just not doing it fast enough. If you are going to tell me it’s faster, please unless you are absolutely sure, check it first, cause I can’t out FB people and I can EGWF (slightly different motion) etc. in tekken so I can do the motion pretty quick… Thanks
Like I said in my above post sagat is all about being able to predict the opponent and punishing them for doing what you know they will do, if you can’t do this then you won’t win so keep practicing it gets easier.
Of course if you fb they’ll fb back if they have one what you think they’re just going to sit there and let you hit them? If your opponent can tag your arms with j rh on the recovery of your fb that simply means you’re being too predictable. Sagat is the character you jump the least with as in never unless you’re sure they will fb or do any other move that you can cleanly beat out with j rh. What do you mean fb tradeoffs? Gat has the fastest fb in the game you should be winning every fb war even against akuma and if you’re not that means you’re not doing them fast enough and need to work on your timing in training mode.
I listed every use for tk you should see how useful it is but one use I forgot to say was I was it to advance on my opponent because it’s fast then just walking forward. If you’re not comfortable with liberally using tk then don’t because it’s pretty risky unless you have the timing right and you really don’t need it especially if you don’t have his basic zoning game down.
Here is a post by graham wolfe the best and only advice you need against bison or vega:
do a fake fireball, when he jumps and loses 1/3 his life from a tiger uppercut, he will rethinking jumping in on you when you throw a fireball.
when he tries that ground game close, just block and when it seems like he is poking alot you can jump at him and do a roundhouse, either he blocks or gets hit by it, but its a good way to hit him since he cannot anti air you if he is poking, also jumping straight up works if he slides alot, you come down with a roundhouse into a combo that can dizzy him or just jump roundhouse, low roundhouse, either one hurts alot and scares him into not poking, which is when you do a fake fireball to make him jump into more damage.
It seems you’re not good at keeping up constant fb pressure (which is what sagat is!) because if done right the opponents only option eventually no matter what character they are will be to jump toward you. The best advice anyone can give you in st is to not be predictable but also don’t be random.
This matchup is roughly even you can make an argument for both sides having a slight advantage. You have to watch out for ground shave and the fact he can walk under high tigers not to mention his nasty jshort but don’t let all that discourage you from stopping your barrage of fb’s. Play halfdolla, real decoy, or the mullah they all have good blankas and will give you all the experience you need in that matchup.
Audio posted some good normal poke advice listen to that. Sagat’s fb’s are still much faster then ryu or kens (even a bit faster then akuma) so you should easily be able to win a fb war against any fb character other then akuma in which case it’s a bit harder. If you can’t win fb wars that simply means you’re not doing it fast enough.
The main problem in the Sagat matchup is that Blanka can hop over Sagat and roundhouse him in time before he recovers from a Tiger Shot, even from long range. And it doesn’t have to be on reaction either.
Play those 3 to get the best blanka experience on xbl. That’s why you have to be more careful with your fb pressure when against blanka but at the same time don’t the fear of being punished for throwing a fb discourage you from using your fb pressure as a way to bait jumps. The second that blanka player smells fear of commitment to your fb pressure he’ll use that opportunity to fake you out and get in close to bite, so try faking him out back (once again this goes back to the yomi game) whiff st fp or cr mk, throw a lk fb and just wait 2 seconds, do what you can to fake blanka out and make him believe you will fb and then you pop him with a dp! As soon as you punish that first jumpin that’s when you can actually start committing to real fb pressure and get a feel for when those jumps are coming.
Hey orochi, thx as always for the feedback. I did some digging on the frame data for haduken (ryu) and sagat tiger. Start up and execution basically equivalent (think sagat is like 1 frame slower:
Ryu 12/40, 12/41, 12/42
Sagat 13/41, 13/42, 13/43
(source sirlin and t.akiba’s street fighter, frame data for ryu was unchanged according to sirlin)
So you mean after the fb comes out? they just hit each other, and since i can’t have two fb on the screen at the same time if i throw another he can just throw one and they again hit… I understand what you are saying about yomi, i just don’t understand what is particularly good about Sagat’s FB in HD. Hard to do FB yomi when they can just fizzle it out with thier own FB, then it just comes down to who predicts the uppercut better me (sagat) or my op as I jump over his predicted fireball (normal shoto like ryu).
I’ve been watching some videos of john choi and I noticed he Tiger’s closer to the op then I do, as I usually hug the back cause I’m scared of a well-timed j.HK, as I figured the more space the more tigers i can throw out. Choi actually moves in on some of his tigers to fire them slightly closer, I realize the frame data is different and that this might be char. specific but I’m going to give it a shot. Maybe by doing this I can, as you say, make the most of Sagat’s faster Tigers.
[media=youtube]xidXHA8c7Ic[/media]
Even though sagat’s fb’s are nerfed they are still much faster then ryu’s if you and him throw tem at the same time just throw another and keep going till he gets hit or is forced to jump at you I don’t know how much simpler I can make it then that.
You really can’t compare john chois sagat to sthd because sagat plays VERY differently in this game then o.sagat did in st. O.sagats fbs are so good there’s no reason NOT to turtle not to mention the tk doesn’t juggle or help build meter so there’s not incentive to use it with 0.sagat 99% if the time unless you’re doing it to bait a jump into dp or throw right after it.
but i guess that if u shot the tiger closer to them and u predict their jumping, you upper tiger will hit them as soon as they will leave the ground