i was trying to pump myself up in case i had to play him since we were in the same pool. lol but he humbled me pretty quick in casuals
I too think Sagat is a heavily sleeped on character. His dizzy potential is crazy (better than O.Sagat imo), his super gives him a lot of interesting ways to hurt you (use it to blow through fireballs or as an unbeatable, full juggle antiair from half-screen), and his zone game is still damn good in the right hands. Every time I think I’ve seen all that Sagat has to offer I see someone new playing him in more interesting ways (like antonalism, jesus christ…).
I must admit it is odd we don’t seem to see a lot of people play him to his potential though.
I agree Sagat is being slept on. He has the best fireball game imo (lol vs. Zangief anyway). His silly tiger knee juggles, super, beastly jumping roundhouse, super fast fireballs, and annoyingly fast getup speed makes him a pain to get in on. The get up speed in particular makes him really hard to cross up. I also can’t get used to throwing Sagat. You have to be noticeably closer to throw Sagat than say Chun Li or Ryu for some reason and it throws me off.
I know this is your opinion of Sagat, but it’s so outlandish cause you are saying he’s basically top tier and for a top tier char that gets NO real tournament play, something is going to have to come into question, namely your tiering of him so high. Nothing against you or anyone who ‘thinks’ Sagat is so beastly, but your so called sound reasoning is J Wong playing him a year ago, a couple of top guys saying he’s better than people think (which doesn’t really say anything) and a match up chart that says basic stuff. Again, real match up charts have to be viewed in light of people actually playing the char at high levels. We have that for a good portion of the cast, but Sagat is still not represented.
Hey, if its your opinion Sagat beats Ryu (or even Ken) then fine, but it’s not represented at high level and I honestly think its ludicrous.
I found matches before I had a 360 stick (yes I was forced to use pad X_x) as you can see life bar and sound glitch in full effect:rofl:
[media=youtube]LxTA4OTDdA0[/media]
[media=youtube]krrKUtZYAVI&feature=related[/media]
[media=youtube]Vyeu630uwvU&feature=related[/media]
[media=youtube]EwE87mLGof8&feature=related[/media]
Yeah I forgot about some of those. I HATE that jumping RH. Almost as annoying as shoto jumping RH. Also, you can’t safejump him, which always sucks (and Sagat players seem to have the highest reversal completion percentage for some stupid reason lol).
I think Sagat loses to Vega, even if slightly.
-cr. mp can reach and stuff tiger shots
-Vega’s jump-ins can stuff shots
Vega’s speed is killer in this one, he doesn’t even need to dive. For Vega its all about reacting to every move Sagat makes and not sticking his limbs out to an uppercut.
Words from Graham Wolfe on sagat vs claw, granted he was talking about st but it still applies:
do a fake fireball, when he jumps and loses 1/3 his life from a tiger uppercut, he will rethinking jumping in on you when you throw a fireball.
when he tries that ground game close, just block and when it seems like he is poking alot you can jump at him and do a roundhouse, either he blocks or gets hit by it, but its a good way to hit him since he cannot anti air you if he is poking, also jumping straight up works if he slides alot, you come down with a roundhouse into a combo that can dizzy him or just jump roundhouse, low roundhouse, either one hurts alot and scares him into not poking, which is when you do a fake fireball to make him jump into more damage.
I will try it man. It just seems the good vega’s mix up the two wall dives. So far I am having problems with Sim, Boxer, Bison, Vega, Blanka.
I will say though I played this guy on psn, I think his name was Nathan Springs and he showed me some things to do against Sim. I’ve been doing them and actually been stealing some more wins and/or making Sims work for their wins.
Anyhow it seems that Sagat’s firece tiger shots low and high come out faster than Sim’s fierce fireball. It seems that if Sagat can keep Sim at bay he can dictate the speed of the match. Granted Sim can get around the tiger shots but that is where Sagat has to predict right and punish those drills as he tries to close the gap. All it takes is a few tiger uppercuts and Sagat has a great lead. I know this is nothing new but it is working somewhat for me.
I will try to record some matches. Still liking Sagat but I still need way more matches before I feel comfortable with him. I wish HDR had a training mode like SSF4. I could test so much stuff.
Thanks for all your help bro.
Why does Sagats uppercut suck? Why cant it be as good as Mr Perfect aka Ryu or Ken or Akuma. It sucks how jumping shorts and jabs counter and/or nullify it. And dont say it would over power Sagat because then that means Ryu is overpowered. Wait he is. Anyhow I am noticing more and more players abusing short and jab to get in on Sagat since if you dont time the uppercut right it either trades or doesnt get off.
Also I dont see how Sagat wins the fireball war against ryu. The recovery is longer it seems so many ryu instead of trying to match fireball for fireball just jump over it and throw another.
I’m playing ryu and it feels like I am going against a tank. Very difficult to put a chink in that armor.
Sagats uppercut is fine it just requires a lot of timing.
To win the fireball war against ryu what you have to utilize is the fact that it’s a lot easier to jump over ryu’s fireball than it is sagat’s.
If he tries to play a fireball war against you merely let him throw one neutral jump over it and then start yours.
Matching him fireball for fireball is pointless as all you give him is super meter.
If he starts trying to neutral jump over alternate high low aswell as the speed or bait it and tiger knee/tiger upper him.
It just goes against the simple train of thought of if they jump then uppercut. With Sagat you have to wait longer than excute. I’ll keep practicing and try some of your other things you mentioned.
Thanks
Vega’s walk speed is very fast, experienced Vega’s will only jump in to stuff a tiger shot. He can still AA when standing by using st. RH, and since Sagat is in the corner then Vega can bait uppercuts. He can also advance by sliding under high shots.
Sweet Poison, there comes a time when you simply have to make due with what you’re given. Sagat’s Tiger Uppercut gives you 4 frames of invincibility…just like the Shotos. Use them well and adjust your timing. Granted, Sagat is much taller than the Shotos, so uppercutting early is very tempting. You could duck and then uppercut to help yourself, but ultimately, it’s all about that timing. Gotta adjust.
And, by the way, when it comes to projectile wars, what makes Sagat dangerous is sometimes what he doesn’t do. You need to incorporate fakes into your game. Make your opponent think you’re going to throw one and do something else instead. As I’ve said for more than a decade now, mind games are the final frontier of skill. Without them, you’re just inputting commands and expecting them to hit. You have to make your opponent open himself up by confusing him, not just overwhelming them. Standing and crouching jabs are like KrisKross from the 90’s. They make people wanna jump jump…and that’s when you Tiger Uppercut them. That will keep them on the ground and open up your offense. Get creative and have fun! 
His dp does a little more damage then shoto’s dp except if ken connects all hits of fierce dp. It doesn’t have any invulnerable frames but he doesn’t need it, his dp is good as is. No jumpin short or jab (except for hawks jab and that’s only if he jumps in from close range) counters dp, If I have no problem dp’ing then neither should anyone else.
It’s fact, sagat beats everyone in fb wars. If ryu does his at the same time as yours and both of you continually fb as fast as possible then by the 4th fb gat will be edging out ryu forcing him to eat or react to the impending 5th fb.
The both have the same exact recovery (41/42/43), ryu has 1 frame faster startup (12) but the speed of his fb is much slower then gat’s so he loses.
If you’re having your fb’s jumped over then you’retoo predictable with your fb’s and/or not reacting quickly enough to punish on reaction.
Get on 360 and play me sometime.
While baiting fb’s from mid range and punishing with j rh is 1 trick I use, to say that it’s how you beat ryu’s fb’s with sagat is bad advice. DGV the best ryu in the U.S, while he beats me most of the time every time win or lose I force him to come to me if I play defensively, and if I’m offensive I force him to guess in the corner. Either way I’m using my fb’s to dictate the match and forcing him to jumpin instead of relying on punishing all the time (which doesn’t happen often against DGV.) Matching fb’s vs ryu is far from pointless. If anything it’s what gives gat the edge in the match because since gat will always beat ryu the gat player only has to plan on what happens after the opponent reacts to an fb while the ryu player has to worry about that as well as not eating the fb in the first place.
Whoever said an experienced sagat would let whiff an fb in the first place? If claw st rh gat can fb or cr hk. Who said sagat would be in the corner? Who said sagat won’t hit slides with fb’s? (slide is the last thing I have to worry about in this matchup.)
What sagat has to worry about most is walk up throw, walk in walk back walk in again throw, st mk (especially if cornered it’s very hard to reversal out of for anyone), and if knocked down ambiguous walldive.
Edit: OJ who told you gat’s dp has 4 frames of invincibility? Have you ever tried lp dp’ing through an fb? Also how come I never see you on xbl?
Sagat’s Uppercut has 7 frames of invincibility, according to Yoga Book Hyper (which is N.Sagat which R.Sagat is based on). The problem of going through fireballs is not the invincibility, but what happens once that invincibility runs out. Sagat has full body vulnerability, which prevents him from going through fireballs. Compare that to Ken who has less frames of invincibility (6 frames), but once Ken’s invincibility runs out, he is only vulnerable on his upper body area, which allows him to go through fireballs with the Shoryuken. Same with Ryu.
Also, yes Sagat can deep-Uppercut every jumpin, but some jump ins are almost impossible not to trade with. Like DeeJay’s j Jab and Zangief’s splash. I haven’t been able to cleanly stuff these two attacks yet, but it doesn’t matter anyway cuz the trade + knockdown is in Sagat’s favor.
Replies in bold.
You should try reading better.
Then you wouldn’t have to make strawmen.
There is no mention of punishing with j.:hk: at all in what i wrote.
I’ve accepted with what is given, I’m just saying though that I dont think it is as good as Ken/Ryu/Akuma’s dragon punch. Also the more I play against Ryu’s the more I hate them. So Sagat is a fitting choice for me. lol
Anyhow I’ve gotten better but I still have a ways to go.Hopefully after enough whuppins the light will go off and I will figure out something and adjust.
It’s not about the invulnerability frames when it comes to sagats upper being hard to hit correctly with.
The problem is this:
The invulnerable part is very low to the ground which is why you have to have both spacing correct and your timing correct.
If you can manage to learn to do it from a crouch like OJ who still has not started using my spiffy avatar i made for him <3 suggested that will help a lot as your opponent will have to time their jump-in “deep” enough where your uppercut would hit them cleanly.