If Sagat can take second in AE at Canada Cup vs the old top tiers im not worried about Ken.
Gat does not lose to Rose. Though we shall see what Ultra brings.
Ths far i see him losing to SnH Ryu, Ken, Dudley and Juri will remain his hard counter.
im scared of rolento tough.
I dunno about Rose. I’ve toyed with it being even but then her Ultra seems to swing the momentum back in her favour. It’s a classic battle that’s for sure.
These changes are justified. Now let the bitching begin.
I agree with above though, I don’t have an issue with taking trade ultra, but if they are going to do that, then they should give more invul frames to TU, or up the damage.
FB’s are still too weak in this game, and everyone sans 'gief has great ways to get around them to make the risk higher than the reward for relying on a fb game. Trade ultra made people think twice, because one dumb jump in = a derpy ggs. With the slow start up, huge hitbox, and laughable damage, I can see sagat getting successfully jumped in on a ton. bump TU up to vanilla damage to make the trade significantly in sagat’s favor, and itll scare people from jumping enough to open up a zoning game.
I’m glad for footsie tools, holy hell its been since super that we’ve had NO midrange tools. I know its a derby fraudulent non-fundamental based tools, but how many characters have derpy fraudulent non-fundamental based tools that were way more probable to hit? at least with trade ultra, dudes would know there was more than a decent chance they’d eat the big juggle if they jumped.
TU is still too weak, if you are going to take away our only derp tactics (trade TU ultra and super safe ex TK pressure), give us something in the zoning/AA game in return.
TU should do 130 damage and have more invul. It should always beat jumpins clean. It’s pretty fuckin stupid that at low life Sagat has no reliable anti-airs that don’t cost meter. He’s a zoning character.
It already has 5 frames of invincibility, that’s more than enough. It will NEVER trade if you do it late.
Yo I got this pmed from combo fiend, trade tu ultra is good!!!
From ComboFiend on 29/11/13
Thanks for reaching out. The trade into U1 is still there, it’s just that in this current build the U1 nerf wasn’t put in correctly. For clarification, the goal here is to take away Sagat’s ability to do TU–>fadc backdash–>U1. That was too safe, so we tried to change it so that you have to always dash forward. Unfortunately the 2nd uppercut in U1 is making that rather difficult and causes the Ultra to act in odd ways. That’ll be addressed.
In the meantime, did you read about the increased damage and usefulness of U2? It gets all hits on juggle and does more damage overall due to that. Maybe that’ll be the Ultra of choice?
With all the buffs he’s getting, I don’t think buffing TU is justified. He’ll still get the trade, that’s a fundamental part of Sagat’s game and the last thing we’d want to do is take that away. Additionally, all he’s gotten is buffs (tiger knee causing stand on crouching chars so you get both hits, EX tiger knee now 0 on block, far stand short cancelling into specials) which make up for the weaknesses that he’s gained since Super.
When the new version comes out, I hope you put in the time to explore his new tools and devise new strats based on them. The grand vision here is to make every char viable, and I think Sagat is pretty much there.
Thanks
Yeah and you’ll never lose if you never get hit. 5 frames is simply not practical with Sagat’s huge hitbox. Deeply angled jumpins/divekicks trade a LOT, even against top players. Sure you get that f.rh juggle after, but that doesn’t mean much when you’re sitting on 200> life and the opponent is on a major lifelead. In certain situations you can’t afford the trade and it’s just not good enough that a zoning character has a 5 frame DP with 5 frames of invul.
I’d rather lose trade Ultra completely if it meant getting uppercuts as clean as Ryu’s. I want consistency from my tools.
Are you guys honestly being serious? I’m not sure at all…
More than 5 frames of invincibility wanted on a DP? Yall must be new to SF or something 
But seriously, 5 frames is MORE than enough
Ryu’s DP doesn’t hit clean either unless you do it properly. It’s only consistent as the person doing the motion. Not only that, if it trades you get shit damage.
I can say this though I thought the split ultra was certainly beneficial so Sagat but with Ultra 2 getting all hits in every situation, I would almost use it over ultra 1 in nearly every match up just because of the threat of full screen ultra off ex TS. I few characters like a Dudley who really cant be zoned well I would still pick Ultra 1.
It might not get full screen hits for the TS juggle, it might just be the FADC. Has anyone seen or tested it?
I noticed something on the stream also, when Mike Ross was doing EX uppercut Combofiend kept saying “He could have done Ultra there” but Ross had U2.
If he’s implying that you can get full juggle hits from an EX upper that’s fairly massive. That would almost swing my Ultra choice into U2. There would be too many applications. You’d only be missing perhaps 80ish damage in most possible scenario’s with scaling including backdash FADC - which would never miss on anyone.
Obviously raw U1 would still be King damage wise but U2 is making a damn good case.
I noticed that as well, I think he was just making a mistake. That would mean TU or U2 have different properties I.E U2 starts up faster or TU leaves them floating even longer(like when done on Hakan) which would mean the chance of landing U1 after TU being MUCH higher.
I think you can get 2 hits of the tiger canon from the EX upper already though from memory (does like 30 damage). I’ll test it now.
EDIT: Yeah, at least on Ryu anyway that’s all I could be fucked checking, you get 2 hits on a jump or a bit more if you catch them right at the peak. It’s a little harder than U1 timing though.
quick funny message, played a pretty good chun li last night (EVERYBODY is trying to pick up chun on xbl right now, Ultra is still a loooong ways off), got bopped and went about 3-5 total, but dude messages me “ggs but you gotta learn more combos”, I’m thinking seriously? practical stuff for us is a 2 in 1 on a meterless punish, and our bnb hit confirm, gtfooh, sorry we can’t do a 5 hit combo string off of any button we press.
Anyone think the nerf of top tiers and DWU, will be the rise of the tiger? I still think Akuma will be up there though, and Seth players need to stop whining. He’s still the same, just less derpy.
I’ve always liked Sagat (Bison main), but thinks he gets stomped on by the top 5.
Edit: Online ranked for me is all Balrog, DeeJay, Chun + Vega.
Like I said before (maybe not here) Sagat will be powerful but his design means he will always have a counter pick. He won’t be a true top tier in the sense of the word. He will (in my opinion) still have a hard time against Juri, Ken, Dhalsim and possibly a few others like Balrog and Evil Ryu who are getting tasty buffs.
She’s never appeared on many bad match up lists but I honestly always felt Chun went well against Sagat, maybe not advantage but certainly at least even. If she get’s that jump change kept in Ultra and Sagat loses his St.lk cancel you can almost certainly add her to the bad match list.
Not sure how well known this is but I threw this together after some lab time with Sagat
And you guys say knee traps aren’t worth it eh… 
Hey, you might want to try doing the AS TU into the two hit safe tk string.
Works on all Shoto’s, pretty much cr.lk cr.lk cr.lk into Mk-TK hits the opponent twice both on hit and block(safely) and if it hits you can hit them with an AS TU.
Once you are comfortable with the ranges, you can just link one cr.lk in a safe mk.tk that can be done on your opponents wake up, much better that way because cr.lk cr.lk cr.lk isn’t a true block string.